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To: WhiskeyPapa
Walt: "Sounds bogus. Date? Source?"

Admittedly, it does. But the truth is Abe St. Lincoln said:

"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with White people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality." -- Abraham Lincoln (Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois on September 18, 1858 (Vol. III pp. 145-461))

"I have urged the colonization of the Negroes, and I shall continue. My Emancipation Proclamation was linked with this plan. There is no room for two distinct races of white men in America, much less for two distinct races of whites and blacks. I can conceive of no greater calamity than the assimilation of the negro into our social and political life as our equal... Within twenty years we can peacefully colonize the negro and give him our language, literature, religion, and system of government under conditions in which he can rise to the full measure of manhood. This he can never do here. We can never attain the ideal union our fathers dreamed, with millions of an alien, inferior race among us, whole assimilation is neither possible nor desirable." -- Abraham Lincoln (Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois on September 18, 1858 (Vol. V, pp. 371-5))

"You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong I need not discuss, but this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both, as I think your race suffer very greatly, many of them by living among us, while ours suffer from your presence. In a word we suffer on each side. If this be admitted, it affords a reason at least why we should be separated." -- Abraham Lincoln (address on Colonization to a Deputation of Negroes in Washington, DC on August 14, 1862 (Vol. V p. 371))

"Looks to me like Lincoln said all men were equal.

Walt"

No, he didn't say all men were equal. He said all men deserve equal opportunity afforded them under the Constitution.
You quoted Abe St. Lincoln from July of '58; I quoted from September of the same year (and later). Looks to me like if he then believed all men to be equal, he may have had a change of heart....

1,443 posted on 07/10/2003 10:41:49 AM PDT by azhenfud ("for every government action, there must be an equal and opposite reaction")
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To: azhenfud
"I have urged the colonization of the Negroes, and I shall continue. My Emancipation Proclamation was linked with this plan. There is no room for two distinct races of white men in America, much less for two distinct races of whites and blacks. I can conceive of no greater calamity than the assimilation of the negro into our social and political life as our equal... Within twenty years we can peacefully colonize the negro and give him our language, literature, religion, and system of government under conditions in which he can rise to the full measure of manhood. This he can never do here. We can never attain the ideal union our fathers dreamed, with millions of an alien, inferior race among us, whole assimilation is neither possible nor desirable." -- Abraham Lincoln (Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois on September 18, 1858 (Vol. V, pp. 371-5))

That can't be correct as posted, as you have Lincoln referring to "My Emancipation Proclamation..." in 1858. Of course there was no EP until 1863.

This whole thing stil looks bogus to me; I'll try and confirm.

Walt

1,446 posted on 07/10/2003 12:29:35 PM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: azhenfud
No, he didn't say all men were equal.

He certainly did:

"until we shall once more stand up declaring that all men are created equal."

--7/10/58

He said all men deserve equal opportunity afforded them under the Constitution.

I don't think he ever said -that- either.

He said that the D of I applied to all men. He clearly indicated that those who served as soldiers should have the full rights of citizens. He said, "blacks, like other people, act on motives." He said so far as tested black soldeiers were as good as any, but I don't think he ever said what you attribute to him.

Walt

1,447 posted on 07/10/2003 12:34:39 PM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: azhenfud
...Abraham Lincoln (Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois on September 18, 1858 ...

Here is a link to the text of the fourth Lincoln-Douglas debate. Can you please find the text of the quote that you claim was in it? Here is a link to the texts of all the Lincoln-Douglas debates. If you can find that quote in any of them would you please point it out?

1,551 posted on 07/11/2003 6:54:22 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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