[nc] The president asked the black leaders to recruit volunteers for a government-financed pilot colonization project in Central America. If this worked, it could pave the way for the emigration of thousands more who might be freed by the war.
[nc]Most black spokesmen in the North ridiculed Lincoln's proposal and denounced its author. "This is our country as much as it is yours," a Philadelphia Negro told the president, "and we will not leave it." Frederick Douglass accused Lincoln of, "contempt for negroes" and "canting hypocrisy." The president's remarks, said Douglass, would encourage "ignorant and base" white men "to commit all kinds of violence and outrage upon the colored people."
[Walt] Not exactly a revelation. President Lincoln always made clear that his first duty was to save the Union.
So let me get this straight Walt. You are saying that as long as Lincoln thought it would save the Union, you would support the forced expulsion or deportation of Blacks or all non-whites from the United States, including Blacks and non-whites who were citizens of the United States.
Correct me if I have misinterpreted what you just said.
====
[Walt 1377]
You might want to rephrase that so that it makes sense.
You seem to be suggesting that I apply my 21st century sensibilities to a 19th century situation. You want to entrap me, but you only embarrass yourself. It's silly to put our judgments on those people. We can however, look at what -they- said. They said that secession was treason. They said, many of them, that slavery was wrong. They might have wanted blacks out of the country entirely, but more and more people were coming to the conclusion that slavery was simply wrong and was no longer to be tolerated. President Lincoln was a very eloquent spokesman for this group.
As president Lincoln said over and over and over again, he only wanted to control the expansion of slavery. He likened the presence of slavery in certain states to finding a poisonous snake in your children's bed. Disturbing the snake might cause irreperable harm. But why on earth would you allow another snake into your other children's bed, when you could prevent it? And the Republicans had the votes -to- prevent it. And that is why the rebels tried to bolt. They aimed to follow the lawful outcome of an election they didn't like with bullets to obtain what they couldn't obtain by the rules. Rules, mind you, that THEY insisted on in the first place.
To call the insurgents heroes is grotesque.
Walt
=====
I guess what you said was so grotesque and embarrassing that you deny you said it, even though it is sitting there for all to see.
I did not ask you to apply any 21st century sensibilities to a 19th century situation. What you quoted of my earlier post speaks only of Lincoln's plan to colonize Black's out of the country and Black criticism of that plan.
Your response to that was: "Not exactly a revelation. President Lincoln always made clear that his first duty was to save the Union.
[Walt] It's silly to put our judgments on those people.
The only people mentioned are Lincoln and Douglass and an unidentified Phidelphia negro. Douglass is quoted.
[Walt] We can however, look at what -they- said. They said that secession was treason.
Would that be Lincoln or Douglass you are talking about?
[Walt] They said, many of them, that slavery was wrong.
Who is THEY? You were responding to a post that only mentions Lincoln and quotes Douglass.
Many of whom? Lincoln and Douglass both said slavery was wrong.
[Walt] They might have wanted blacks out of the country entirely,
WHO IS THEY THIS TIME?
Colinization was Lincoln's idea.
Douglass was staunchly opposed.
[Walt] but more and more people were coming to the conclusion that slavery was simply wrong and was no longer to be tolerated. President Lincoln was a very eloquent spokesman for this group.
LINCOLN was the one proposing to deport all Blacks.
[Walt] As president Lincoln said over and over and over again, he only wanted to control the expansion of slavery.
Lincoln said over and over again he wanted the territories to be free of ALL Blacks, and all colors but white.
Lincoln said the territories "should be the happy home of teeminbg millions of free, white, prosperous people, and no slave among them."
Lincoln said the territories "should be kept open for the homes of free white people."
Lincoln said "We want them [the territories] for the homes of free white people."
In defending his interest in the territories, Lincoln said to Douglas "I think we have some interest. I think that as white men we have. Do we not wish for an outlef for our surplus population, if I may so express myself." [You may so express yourself. Rock on, Abe.]
Lincoln said he wanted to deport the Blacks. That is what Douglass was arguing against in the quoted material to which you purport to respond.
[Walt] He likened the presence of slavery in certain states to finding a poisonous snake in your children's bed. Disturbing the snake might cause irreperable harm. But why on earth would you allow another snake into your other children's bed, when you could prevent it?
Lincoln said he wanted to deport the Blacks. That is what Douglass was arguing against in the quoted material to which you purport to respond.
[Walt] And the Republicans had the votes -to- prevent it. And that is why the rebels tried to bolt. They aimed to follow the lawful outcome of an election they didn't like with bullets to obtain what they couldn't obtain by the rules. Rules, mind you, that THEY insisted on in the first place.
Lincoln said he wanted to deport the Blacks. That is what Douglass was arguing against in the quoted material to which you purport to respond.
[Walt] To call the insurgents heroes is grotesque.
YOUR RESPONSE TO DOUGLASS'S CRITICISM OF LINCOLN'S PLAN TO COLONIZE BLACKS, EXCUSING LINCOLN THE PIMP ON THE GROUNDS THAT HE WAS JUST TRYING TO SAVE THE UNION, IS WHAT IS GROTESQUE.
I repeat again below the quote you are addressing. Where is the part about calling insurgents heroes?
Walt, you purport to respond to THIS, your quote from my prior post:
[nc 1374]
[nc] The president asked the black leaders to recruit volunteers for a government-financed pilot colonization project in Central America. If this worked, it could pave the way for the emigration of thousands more who might be freed by the war.
[nc] Most black spokesmen in the North ridiculed Lincoln's proposal and denounced its author. "This is our country as much as it is yours," a Philadelphia Negro told the president, "and we will not leave it." Frederick Douglass accused Lincoln of, "contempt for negroes" and "canting hypocrisy." The president's remarks, said Douglass, would encourage "ignorant and base" white men "to commit all kinds of violence and outrage upon the colored people."
You asked what I thought. It's pretty much 2003 around here.
What time is it where you live?
Walt
People didn't think that at the time. That is why this is all so silly.
Walt
Lincoln never proposed to deport anyone.
He did pursue voluntary relocation, but no one was buying that.
Walt
I don't think he ever said any such thing. He said he didn't want slavery in the territories, but he never said that any free man be excluded. In fact he indicated just the opposite, saying plainly that blacks were entitled to the benefits listed in the D of I, and saying that once blacks fought for freedom, they deserved it. Being free means you can go where you want.
Walt