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To: Dataman
Logic tells us that it is impossible for life to create itself.

Logic tells us no such thing.

118 posted on 05/23/2003 11:59:29 AM PDT by laredo44
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To: laredo44
Oh, now be nice, he has to stick with his delusions or his entire worldview will come apart, and he will not be what he once was.

You must be careful of the creationist ego, it is easily bruised for some reason.
122 posted on 05/23/2003 12:04:27 PM PDT by Aric2000 (Are you on Grampa Dave's team? I am!! $5 a month is all it takes, come join!!!)
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To: laredo44
Logic tells us that it is impossible for life to create itself.

Logic tells us no such thing.

Self-creation is a logical impossibility since the something that was created would have to preexist its own creation in order to create itself. It is therefore a logical impossibility.

Feel free to show us how anything could create itself.

176 posted on 05/23/2003 2:33:28 PM PDT by Dataman
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To: laredo44
Logic tells us that it is impossible for life to create itself.-dataman-

Logic tells us no such thing.

Then if you do not buy the logical argument, then here is why science has shown that abiogenesis is impossible:

The smallest living cells has a DNA string of some one million base pairs long and some 600 genes, even cutting this number by a quarter as the smallest possible living cell would give us a string of some 250,000 base pairs of DNA. It is important to note here that DNA can be arranged in any of the four basic codes equally well, there is no chemical or other necessity to the sequence. The chances of such an arrangement arising are therefore 4^250,000. Now the number of atoms in the universe is said to be about 4^250. I would therefore call 4^250,000 an almost infinitely impossible chance (note that the supposition advanced that perhaps it was RNA that produced the first life has this same problem).

The problem though is even worse than that. Not only do you need two (2) strings of DNA perfectly matched to have life, but you also need a cell so that the DNA code can get the material to sustain that life. It is therefore a chicken and egg problem, you cannot have life without DNA (or RNA if one wants to be generous) but one also has to have the cell itself to provide the nutrients for the sustenance of the first life. Add to this problem that for the first life to have been the progenitor of all life on earth, it necessarily needs to have been pretty much the same as all life now on earth is, otherwise it could not have been the source of the life we know.

In addition to the above you have the problem of the symbolism in the DNA code. The code is totally abstract, yet RNA knows to interpret the 64 possible combinations into the 20 amino acids in the proteins that make up life. Who taught RNA to read this code? It takes children years to learn to use the alphabet. This symbolism is proof of design and makes materialistic abiogenesis, by itself totally impossible. So given all these considerations, proven beyond a doubt by science, abiogenesis is impossible.

214 posted on 05/23/2003 7:38:52 PM PDT by gore3000
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