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Rowan Williams apologises to Freemasons
Telegraph (UK) ^ | 20/04/2003 | Chris Hastings and Elizabeth Day

Posted on 04/22/2003 1:54:17 AM PDT by nickcarraway

The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, has been forced to apologise to Britain's 330,000 Freemasons after he said that their beliefs were incompatible with Christianity and that he had rejected them from senior posts in his diocese.

Dr Williams has written to Robert Morrow, the Grand Secretary of the United Grand Lodge of England, in an attempt to defuse the row prompted by comments he made last year. In his letter, the Archbishop apologises for the "distress" he caused and discloses that his own father was a member of the Craft.

Freemasons, many of whom are active members of the Church of England, reacted angrily to his disclosure that he "had real misgivings about the compatibility of Masonry and Christian profession" and by his admission that, as Bishop of Monmouth, he had blocked the appointment of Freemasons to senior appointments.

His comments about Freemasons were in a private letter leaked to the media shortly after Downing Street confirmed his appointment as head of the Church of England.

Subsequent attempts by his advisers to defuse the row only caused further offence. A spokesman said the Archbishop was worried about the ritual element of Freemasonry, which has been seen as "satanically inspired".

In his letter of apology, Dr Williams tries to distance himself from his own reported comments. He claims that his views were never meant to be public and were distorted by the media.

He wrote: "I have been sorry to learn of the distress of a considerable number of Freemasons . . . In replying to private correspondence, I had no intention of starting a public debate nor of questioning the good faith and generosity of individual Freemasons and I regret the tone and content of the media coverage."

He added: "The quoted statements about the 'satanic' character of the Masonic ceremonies and other matters did not come from me and do not represent my judgment. Since my late father was a member of the Craft for many years, I have had every opportunity of observing the probity of individual members."

Dr Williams does not, in his letter, deny that he has misgivings about the role of Freemasons within the Church.

He wrote: "Where anxieties exist, however, they are in relation not to Freemasonry but to Christian ministers subscribing to what could be and often is understood [or misunderstood] as a private system of profession and initiation, involving the taking of oaths of loyalty."

He ends his letter by stating that Freemasons' commitment to charity and the community is beyond question.


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To: Pharmboy
It came out of the Masonic Museum; where it is kept. Of course it is a King James Bible; one which was used at a lodge, in Manhattan, and George Washington took his oath of office on. President bush the younger did NOT use it, because it is an historic, fragile Bible and it was raining , the day he was inaugurated.
261 posted on 04/22/2003 11:10:55 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: nickcarraway

262 posted on 04/22/2003 11:27:53 PM PDT by Dajjal
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To: Paul C. Jesup
Do you know who the shriners are, realy?

Frankly I do not. But if they are an offshoot of the Masons, I would say they are Satanists. But most of these "secret" societies are evil only at the higher levels and candy coated on the outside. Appealing to pride, they subvert people into "higher, secret knowledge” in the rise to power.

If you are not higher than 13th level mason, you ain’t jack, and have no idea what you are involved with. If you are higher than 13th level, you are not a Christian.

If anyone disagrees with me, just go to your local hardcover dusty used book store and read up for yourself.
263 posted on 04/22/2003 11:53:30 PM PDT by American in Israel (Right beats wrong)
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To: anthony634
As a Freemason and Christian for many years, there is no conflict since there is no 'belief' system in Freemasonry.

Uh, right. That is why there are so many levels, because, uh, just because. Masonry is one of the most complex belief systems out there. You are either brain dead or a liar. What does the calipers stand for, measuring rock?

264 posted on 04/22/2003 11:59:35 PM PDT by American in Israel (Right beats wrong)
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To: AxelPaulsenJr
What the hell are you talking about? I am a Mason and have never heard of such a text.

Well, now you have. I suggest you start looking up the higher level teachings ASAP. You are in hot water and the heat is only slowly turned up. Most frogs don't jump.

There is very little use in me repeating a bunch of stuff about Masons to you, I suggest you look for yourself. Do a little honest detective work on your own, it is after all your soul at stake. Do yourself a favor and skip over the first levels, cause at the 13th or so they tell you it is all crap put out for the masses, but you have been chosen for the real stuff.

265 posted on 04/23/2003 12:10:37 AM PDT by American in Israel (Right beats wrong)
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To: AxelPaulsenJr
Sorry, never been on a Masonic thread before. I posted what I had read, because I simply read it and thought those without fingers in their ears might want to know.

I know all what you need to be to join, and also know what you need beyond that. Something which you do not know, or are keeping your vows about.

Of course your lodge does not have a library, what good is secret's if you print them up for everybody. But the books do get printed, and you can find them if you bother to look.

If you really do believe that the Mason's are a beautiful symbolic boys club and are a Christian, I strongly warn you to look for the truth before you get there.
266 posted on 04/23/2003 12:16:36 AM PDT by American in Israel (Right beats wrong)
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To: AxelPaulsenJr
You claim to be a 32 degree? Now I understand why you say all the 31 levels below you are just beautiful meaningless things. 32 levels of meaningless nothings later, you reach the high and exalted position of beautiful meaningless nothing. Riiiight... You lie as good as Arafat.

If you are truely a 32 degree, you are way beyond not knowing what it is all about. Perhaps it is you who should prepare to be flamed.
267 posted on 04/23/2003 12:47:29 AM PDT by American in Israel (Right beats wrong)
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To: nhbob1
Thanks. BTW great job defending the Craft...

I take it this was a expression of faith.

268 posted on 04/23/2003 1:46:18 AM PDT by American in Israel (Right beats wrong)
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To: Brian Allen
Why not find a Mason on good standing -- and ask HIM?

That is what has been done on this thread

That works every darn time!

Apparently not...

I understand that to tell of your secret oaths breaks your word, and I can respect that. But, knowing what I have seen for my own eyes, I also understand why there are secret levels on levels, and why the penalties for reveling the secrets is so, shall we say, excessive.

It just does not work to out and out ask someone to worship Lucifer cold turkey, and tends to put a dark light on all the social PR efforts. Besides, what fun is a pack of wolves without sheep?

269 posted on 04/23/2003 2:16:41 AM PDT by American in Israel (Right beats wrong)
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To: nopardons
Now you got me curious so I googled a bit. Here are some interesting facts about the mix of Christian Denominations and Masonry:


PARTIAL LIST OF CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS
THAT CONDEMN MASONRY:
Methodist Church of England
Wesleyan Methodist Church
Russian Orthodox Church
Assemblies of God
Church of the Nazarene
Orthodox Presbyterian Church
Reformed Presbyterian Church
Evangelical Mennonite Church
Church of Scotland
Grace Brethren
Roman Catholic Church
Christian Reformed Church in America
Evangelical Mennonite Church
Synod Anglican Church of England
Free Church of Scotland
General Association of Regular Baptist Churches
Independent Fundamentalist Churches of America
The Evangelical Lutheran Synod
Baptist Union of Scotland
Presbyterian Church in America

So the Masons claim there is no conflict with Christianity, yet Most of the mainstream Christian denominations do.

The Masons also say that any religious group can join, and see no conflict with the statement of Christ that He and His sacrifice is the only way to God, and the thought that Sikas and Bhudists are of equal stature.

Obviously the Masons have no Idea what Christianity is about.


270 posted on 04/23/2003 2:40:04 AM PDT by American in Israel (Right beats wrong)
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To: sitetest
Matt 5:33-37 "Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.




Jas 5:12 "But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.



Matt 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."




SOME OATHS OF A MASONORY

"All this I most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear with a firm and steadfast resolution, to keep and perform the same without any equivocation, mental reservation or secret evasion of mind whatever, binding myself under a no less penalty than that of having my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by its roots (1st degree) my left breast torn open, my heart plucked out (2nd Degree) my body severed in twain, my bowels taken from thence and burned to ashes (3rd degree)should I ever knowingly violate this my solemn obligation as an Entered Apprentice Mason, a Fellow Craft Mason, a Master Mason."
Ronayne, Edmond. Handbook of Freemasonry, 1943. Chicago: Powner Co. 1973.


271 posted on 04/23/2003 2:55:48 AM PDT by American in Israel (Right beats wrong)
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To: Diver925
Things like this is why the Catholic Church and other Christian denominations have decided that Masonry is incompatible with Christianity:

"That which we must say to the crowd is - we worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General (of the 33rd degree), we say this, that you may repeat it to the brethren of the 32nd , 31st and 30th degrees - The Masonic Religion should be , by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine.

If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay, the God of the Christians, whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests calumniate him? Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also God. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two Gods: darkness being necessary to light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive.

In analogical and universal dynamics one can only lean on that which will resist. Thus the universe is balanced by two forces which maintain its equilibrium, the force of attraction and that of repulsion These two forces exist in physics, philosophy and religion. And the scientific reality of the divine dualism is demonstrated by the phenomena of the polarity and by the universal law of sympathies and antipathies. That is why the intelligent disciples of Zoroaster, as well as, after them, the Gnostics, the Manicheans, and the Templars have admitted, as the only logical metaphysical conception, the system of the divine principles fighting eternally, and one cannot believe the one inferior in power to the other.

Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophic religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil."

(1871: Richmond, VA L. H. Jenkins, 1942, p. 732) Letter delivered to the Masonic Supreme Council convention in Paris July 14, 1889

Bolds were mine, note that one of the "Defenders of the craft" on this thread claim to be a 32 degree Mason. This is why the my choice of saying that for the Masons to claim offence as being denounced as not a part of the Christian Church is so "Islamic". They, like the Islamics, have embraced the lie as a useful tool.

272 posted on 04/23/2003 3:04:57 AM PDT by American in Israel (Right beats wrong)
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To: TontoKowalski; Qwerty
You really are wasting your time. These "Masons are the Devils" threads pop up time to time, and you're not going to change any minds. You're not even going to find a civilized debate, nor even informed opinion. Just a bunch of "I knew a Mason and he was evil" and "I read a website about Masons that said" stories.

Perhaps you can grasp a statement by a Mason himself, surely he has "an informed opinion?"


273 posted on 04/23/2003 3:12:58 AM PDT by American in Israel (Right beats wrong)
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To: nopardons
http://www.swem.wm.edu/spcoll/Monroe/jqaletter.htm

John Quincy Adams, 17 September 1831, to Richard Rush. Discussing the Monroe Doctrine and Freemasonry
274 posted on 04/23/2003 3:37:31 AM PDT by honway
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To: nopardons
http://www.dcgrandlodge.org/pres.htm

John Quincy Adams

He wrote and spoke about his views that Freemasonry was antithetical to the ideals of democracy and equality of the U.S. and that it would be better for the U.S. if Freemasonry were to disappear. He was elected to Congress as a member of the Antimason Party
275 posted on 04/23/2003 3:40:05 AM PDT by honway
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To: All


Light on Freemasonry
Bernard, David
1829


http://www.kessinger-publishing.com/searchresults_orderthebook.lasso?Author=Bernard,%20David&Submit=Query
276 posted on 04/23/2003 4:08:41 AM PDT by honway
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To: Pharmboy
While there is no doubt as to it's influence, I don't think the early settlers and pilgrims would claim it.
277 posted on 04/23/2003 4:31:40 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: nopardons
My mistake, I assumed it was Christian because my grandfathers were/are religious, and both were Christian... and one mentioned that being religious was a large part of being a Mason.

My original point stands though.. the Masons aren't about Satan worship.

278 posted on 04/23/2003 4:32:10 AM PDT by Qwerty
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To: nanny
You're right about the latter, but that wasn't my point either. It was clear that the order was first in my relative's heart. He treated his religion (and that's what he had, rather than a relationship with Christ) like a secondary social club. But hey, lots of folks who call themselves Christians do that. Sadly, just because one stands in a garage doesn't make one a car.
279 posted on 04/23/2003 4:39:08 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun
Freemasonry had nothing to do with the colonization of the New World; only the formation of the US.
280 posted on 04/23/2003 5:14:13 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Dems lie 'cause they have to)
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