Recent job ad: H1 transfers (Taking American Jobs)

Dice.com

[1stFreedom]

Folks,

I've been looking for a job for weeks without success. While searching on Dice.com, I found an ad targeting anyone with an H1 visa to transfer!

Whoever says workers on visas don't take jobs from Americans is smoking crack.

Foreign workers send money "home" thereby taking money out of the US economy. They take both old and new jobs away from Citizens. This might be fine during times of economic boom, but it's a shame during times like now.

Call and write your representatives in Congress asking them to, on an emergency basis, deny ALL H1 and L1 visas and related transfers. They may give you the excuse that they don't want to have the jobs shipped overseas, but don't accept that excuse. Ask them to impose heavy tarrifs or taxes on corporations that relocate thier IT work.

Tons of IT people have been out of work for some time now, and it's reached a boiling point.

I hate to say it, but I think we'll have more success with the Dems then the Pubbies.

(One thing the Pubbies are not considering is that many IT professionals are in fact incorporated and are small businesses.)

DICE Search results:

Title: H1 transfers Skills: JAVA, J2EE, EJB, oracle, DB2, SQL Server, Seibel, .net, VB, ASP, peoplesoft, CRM, Business analyst, 21 cfr PART 11, QA testers

Date: 4-7-2003 Location: Edison, NJ Area code: 732

Tax term: FULLTIME Pay rate: DOE Length: permanent

Position ID: AS202 Dice ID: 10108743

Job description: We are looking for a qualified candidates who are looking to transfer their H1. The candidates will be interviewed in their respective fields by experts and if selected will be considered for further training conducted in house. Salary will be based on skills. Local candidates preferred but is not a limitation. Good communication skills required.

Requirements: JAVA, J2EE, EJB, oracle, DB2, SQL Server, Seibel, .net, VB, ASP, peoplesoft, CRM, Business analyst, 21 cfr PART 11, QA testers Travel required: none Telecommute: no

[Snuffington]

Part of the problem with the H1's are the way they take advantage of the Visa holders. In the current IT economy, it is almost impossible for an H1 Visa holder to find another company to sponsor his Visa. So an employee with a Visa sponsor is practically in a form of indentured servitude to his employer, with the promise of a Green Card seen as the big payoff making it worth while.

Then, when the visa expires, the company can send a fully trained worker back to India. If they have Indian facilities (and a large number of companies do now), the job will travel back to India where they can pay less than a quarter the salary and STILL be comparatively generous by the standard of living in India. Net result, one job lost in America, one job gained in India.

Now of course, we're not in zero sum economies. Smart companies are going to go after enough business to hire both Indians and Americans, because they want to grow as large as they can.

But when the times get tough, it's the American jobs that become expendable, because they have a larger impact on the bottom line. And this is definitely NOT the story told by either politicians or IT companies when our national visa policy is defended.

[gedeon3]

Congratulations! But your comments only reinforce what we are saying here. If there were no types from other countries, then the job you have would belong to an american. And don't give me no garbage that the job you do, could only be done by you or some other foreing type.

[Steel and Fire and Stone]

They can be penalized big time for this. They have to offer jobs to American workers first.

Opps.. you forgot to add the < /sarcasm > tag. There is no penalty enforced for a practice that the government explicitly encourages via imigration and tax law.

[PuNcH]

Out here Microsoft tells us the reason they hire so many from H1-B pool, is because our schools are not preparing our students adequately so they can do these jobs.

Why should the schools prepare the students adequately? Or better yet, why should Microsoft do the training they need if they can just get a cheap handout from the government?

[ninenot]

The IT group is taking it on the chops the same way engineers did about 5-10 years ago.

HOWEVER, I have been told that in the Milwaukee area, all USGovernment suppliers (Blue Cross, Wisconsin Physicians' Group) are NOT accepting resumes unless the candidate is a US Citizen.

Apparently the Feds 'put out the word' recently, at least to some organizations.

Ergo, for you, health-system providers, manufacturers who supply the Feds (even indirectly) and, of course, security-providers, should be a fertile field, assuming any of them are hiring in your area.

[clamper1797]

Perhaps a better idea would be to improve your job skills, lower your asking price, or find a new line of work, instead of relying on government intervention for your livelihood

What an absolute pant load ... it WAS the gubmint that started this STUPID program now they need to stop it ... and stop it NOW

[ninenot]

Perhaps you should be familiar with the technology.

His skills are current.

At what point in the bankruptcy process does the Constitutional mandate to "provide for the common good" kick in for you, cheapo??

[bvw]

Well the big companies that use many, many H1B's have the art of advertising positions (narrow-casting) and filling out the paperwork to a "t" down very well, and that effort pays down many a US law student's debt load.

[Steel and Fire and Stone]

You speak the gospel truth, and you know what? If the GOP doesn't get its collective head straight on this dynamite issue (re: greying IT generation), they're going to find their political legs cut out from under them. I won't support any politician who supports an open ended, non-controlled H1 (NAFTA, et. al.) immigration policy. Do we need to keep the H1B door open? Certainly. However, at the moment, there is no door at all. If ol' Ulsamma and his buddies want to get into the USA, the shortest, quickest way is to put "Programmer" on their application.

[bigfootbob]

"Why should the schools prepare the students adequately? Or better yet, why should Microsoft do the training they need if they can just get a cheap handout from the government?"

You answered the question quite well.

[dark_lord]

Also technological changes means that there is a need for fewer programmers, and that these programmers can be located anywhere in the world.

This is a common misperception, and part of the problem. The fact is, only 30% of software projects are successful. Why? Because (here is the real reason) the vast majority of managers of software projects don't know what the heck they are doing.

The managers are themselves people who might understand, in a general way, the business -- but most of the time the manager assigned is assigned because they are the manager that is least needed. They know nothing of gathering requirements. They couldn't tell you the difference between functional and nonfunctional requirements, or why they are important. They don't understand how facilitation techniques aid in requirements gathering. They don't understand design. They don't know how to translate requirements to design. They don't know how to translate design to code. They don't understand the need for testing and never budget for it. They don't know why regression testing is needed and what happens if automated testing is not funded.

They just go - oh, hire some Java jockeys who know J2EE, use the web application server du jour, and get some Oracle guys. By the way - we need the system in 3 months.

People who just know the programming language and the tools can no more build a system than you can take a bunch of guys who have two years experience as carpenters, cementers, electricians and plumbers and say - guys, go build me a 10 story building. Yeah, that'll work. NOT!

[ninenot]

I don't understand why age would be a factor in hiring a contractor if the company doesn't have to worry about the contractor's benefits.

MONEY

+10 years' experience is more expensive

Over 40 years of age means higher health-insurance premiums, either now or next year

No obligation for 7 1/2% Social Security contrib, 401(k), FUCA, SUCA, and a few other tidbits for contractors.

Summarily, forgetting any salary difference, these numbers add up to about 10% hit in overhead compared with el-cheapo H1 or under-30 kid.

[1stFreedom]

>>Please man! Grow up!

Another asenine response.

>> I came to this country on a H1. I am an Oracle, SQL Server and Unix specialist. I had to work 10 times harder than you to get and keep a job.

Baloney. Maybe to leave your own country you might have had to do this. (Unfortunately) I have been in on hiring processes for H1. Many times it was simply an issue if they could speak english clearly enough and could answer basic technical questions they were hired. The saddest part was that the companies were charging $100 - $125 an hour and paying the H1s like 40k a year.

>>I do not send any money out of the US.

You are probably the exception to the rule.

>> We WILL take your job from you if you are not good enough for it!

It's not a question of being good enough.

>> If you can't stand the heat, get out of the cafe!

Ok, if we eliminate the H1 and green card program, you'll be the one standing the heat and have to go back to work for rice or beans in your hellhole of a country.

>>I had to do the jobs of the Americans that I worked with because they were not...think that they were paid enough to work long hours!

Nobody is disputing the dedication, education level, and ambition of the average H1 worker. I've worked with plenty and the are excellent employees and individuals as well. They simply need to work in their own country OR immigrate and become citizens.

[Im Your Huckleberry]

I've got it a little easier. Made a slew out of one successful start-up...and I'm published. Published a number of technical articles in magazines like JavaPro and Java Developer's Journal, and I wrote a programming book.

So getting work is pretty easy for me. I got people falling over to offer me work, and I've been off for a year just taking a load off, doing some side stuff I've always wanted to do.

Want them to still come looking for you? PUBLISH!

[A. Pole]

Who was the president in the mid 90's?.

Who was the president last couple years? Does he give a hoot?

[ninenot]

It intervened on behalf of donor tech corporations and lied to us when they said the reason was a labor shortage.

RIngs a bell. Weren't the big floodgates opened during X42's regime?

[1stFreedom]

My best friend and a cousin graduated college at that time with engineering degrees. They both lived in Souther Cal. Man, the military cuts killed the engineering industry at that time. One works in IT, and the other works as a mechanic at a TDK plant.

[clamper1797]

Welcome to America ... now go home

[A. Pole]

Out here Microsoft tells us the reason they hire so many from H1-B pool, is because our schools are not preparing our students adequately so they can do these jobs.

If this is true reason, then maybe American students should go to India and China to get world class education. This way they will have much smaller debt and will get job upon return, or will they?

[Im Your Huckleberry]

No, now they go "Hire some Indians and outsource it".

Problem is, they forget the old adage, "you get what you pay for".

Having seen three projects that involved Indian and Pakistani programmers go down in flames (not my projects, thank God!), I had to laugh.

Most Indians and Pakistanis I've worked with have been pathetically bad programmers. I'd say that half the American programmers I've worked with are bad, and 2/3 or more of Indians and Pakistanis are bad.

Programming is difficult, regardless, but I've found that Indians are some of the worst I've ever seen (and these are people with advanced degress...Masters and Ph.D.'s in Comp. Sci.)

Russians can be good, but not any better than Americans.

I'll take American programmers anyday. Regardless of cost.