Recent job ad: H1 transfers (Taking American Jobs)

Dice.com

[Gaas]

Please man! Grow up! I came to this country on a H1. I am an Oracle, SQL Server and Unix specialist. I had to work 10 times harder than you to get and keep a job. I do not send any money out of the US. I spend it all here! I have my green card now and I intend to become a citizen. There are 1000's just like me. We WILL take your job from you if you are not good enough for it! It is not taking a job away from an American. Most of us are Republicans. We cannot wait to get to vote either! If you can't stand the heat, get out of the cafe! I had to do the jobs of the Americans that I worked with because they were not willing to work till god knows what time of the night because it was not in there job description or it was beneath him/her to work late or because he/she did not think that they were paid enough to work long hours! When I came here I worked for pennies while you were making $200 per hour! I am doing my part for this country. This is my new country, I will die for it and I will fight for the freedom that the US gives. You should not worry (if you are good). I am in management now and I am definatly not for visa people. To many hassles. But if the person is as good as his/her resume says they are, then I will hire them on the spot. The same as for any American.

[Steel and Fire and Stone]

Perhaps a better idea would be to improve your job skills, lower your asking price, or find a new line of work, instead of relying on government intervention for your livelihood.

Good point. No one wants to rely on good graces of "government intervention", or union representation. However, when the government has already intervened in the market, that should be reversed. The government has already put 300,000 "Job For Sale - CHEAP! benefits - US Green Card! Hurry and apply now!" signs out per year (including NAFTA visas, H1B, and a few other classes). What's more, the government is only targeting one group of citizens .. on class of citizens.

Upgrade my skills? Great, ok, I'll bite. I've done that, and took a pay cut every year for the past five years. Here's an example of a friend of mine who's been out of work 1/2 the time for the past four years: US Naval Academy Grad, former Marine Pilot, Engineering Degree, Oracle and MS Certifications, 10 years experience in IT ... no work.

95% of the people I've worked with on every project since 1992 have been foreign nationals. There is no way you can "upgrade your skills" to prepare for an environment where (a) technology changes every 3-6 months, (b) there are 100 applicants from 3rd world countries willing to accept ANY salary just to get their foot into the USA, and (c) where that salary they except won't support a U.S. college education.

Your response indicates either ignorance or arrogance. You either have no idea what's happening to the IT industry, or are personally benefiting from the U.S. government sponsored "job shop" system.

My son is 15, has been working on industry standard software (web, database, etc.) since he was 10, and wanted to go into my field (databases, custom applications, large system development, etc.). He's already "wise" to this world. He already understands that he cannot support a $100-200 K college degree on a $45,000 a year entry-level salary, and <$100K top salary. The pay off isn't work the investment, so he's looking for another field.

The only people I know who support the current H1 "job shop" system are the parasites and pimps who "sell" the jobs. Even IT managers know they're not getting quality. Sure, the best kids from India or Ireland or the Philippines or Russia are as smart as any American kids, and come to the USA labor market at a bargain. But most of the guys and gals from overseas are "average" like most Americans, which means they have real problems with language and cultural skills. One-on-one in any interview between an American college graduate and a foreign national, 85% of Americans have the edge. But when you inject the green card, there's a wholesale discount on the foreign nation, no American can compete, regardless of education, background, skills, or work ethic. What's more, if you're over 40, you might as well write it off.. you have no chance.

I've been in this business about 17 years, both as an independent consultant, and as a staffer for Big five firms and fortune 100 companies. I am very highly skilled, have been continuously "re-educating" myself for ten years, and have narrowly avoided employment downturns that have devastated many of my colleagues. If the US Government does not control the Visa IT labor, there will be no American's in the business in 5 years.

[A. Pole]

After 20 years in IT, I am about to give up. I started a handyman business.

Free market bump

[dfwgator]

The main problem is that there are simply not enough projects to go around. In the late 1990's Y2K was responsible for many companies upgrading their systems. Therefore, there was tremendous demand for IT skills. What you had was a case where there was so much development going on at one time that it simply was not possible for that level of demand to remain once the Y2K phase came to an end. Eventually, the number of projects will return to a normal level, though it will never be like it was in the late 90s again. Also technological changes means that there is a need for fewer programmers, and that these programmers can be located anywhere in the world.

[A. Pole]

Perhaps a better idea would be to improve your job skills, lower your asking price.

Why don't you move to India? I am sure you can get low paying job there.

[Orangedog]

You beat me to it!

[1stFreedom]

Another asenine response.

>>I watched the boom, made really, really good money, knew there would be an IT labor glut eventually and prepared for it, got laid off. No regrets.

Ok. Nice, nothing wrong with that comment.

>>If you want to work in I.T. you have to be, intelegent, hard working, technically up to date, AND WILLING TO TAKE A PAY CUT!

It's not about pay. If it were merely about pay I along with others would be working. I myself go with the market, it the best way to keep working. However, that isn't flying right now.

Lowering your asking rate/pay is contingent on and employer showing interest in you. Many folks would work for $10 an hour the opportunity to make such an offer isn't there.

>>You made more money then you were worth, now you're going to get what you're worth and no more.

I totally agree with this statement. But the problem is that the number of job applicants to actual positions is outrageous. Throw in H1 and L1 workers and it's even worse.

>>Grow up or become a democrat.

This is the asenine statement. It's not about maturity. It's about the policy of the Government and how it's hurting people.

[bvw]

I'm just saying what's happening. When you use the word "cannot" -- bad engleesh. Proper King's English would have it as "should not". That is to be fair, and not to call you a liar.

[gedeon3]

In other words, why is this president not fixing the problem created by the rapist clinton? Is a valid question.

[Proud_texan]

I can understand your feelings but allow me to add yet another wrinkle.

After 22 years of being an independent contractor it's just getting too hard. Yes, it's possible to jump thru hoops with the IRS but companies are no longer willing to do so for long term deals, at least in my case.

A company wanted to hire me as an remote employee BUT it now appears that even a single employee in a state creates a tax nexus requiring them to collect sales tax for sales in that state even if they have no other presence. Naturally that not only creates reporting headaches but competetive issues.

So the company is going to take a pass. I can't say that I blame them, were I in their shoes I'd do the same. I'll figure something else out but it sure seems to me that the gobberment is getting so greedy that they're killing at least some opportunities but then what else is new?

Not to belabor the obvious but what fools.

[dark_lord]

I don't understand why age would be a factor in hiring a contractor if the company doesn't have to worry about the contractor's benefits.

Because the common perception is that an older contractor is a "flight risk". That is, they are doing contracting only until they can find a full time job, at which point they will bail on the contract. So in general, it is hard to become a contractor once you are over 40. Now, if you start as a contractor in your 30's and have a track record -- then you are okay.

[Mr. Bird]

Fair enough. My organization has petitioned for H1-B on occasion (never for techies, though) and we follow the law to the letter.

[1stFreedom]

>>Good point. No one wants to rely on good graces of "government intervention", or union representation. However, when the government has already intervened in the market, that should be reversed. The government has already put 300,000 "Job For Sale - CHEAP! benefits - US Green Card! Hurry and apply now!" signs out per year (including NAFTA visas, H1B, and a few other classes). What's more, the government is only targeting one group of citizens .. on class of citizens.

You hit the nail on the head. As a small business owner, I do not like government intervention. My business is suffering as a result of Government intervention by allowing the flooding of the market with cheap labor.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Perhaps a better idea would be to improve your job skills, lower your asking price, or find a new line of work, instead of relying on government intervention for your livelihood.

Horse crap....End the immigration disaster and the national security time bomb......

[PuNcH]

We never have lacked nationally for muscle-powered labor, nor have we been hurt nationally for getting it cheap from other countries. But it is silly to open up our national brain pan and drain it away, leaving us nationally a resource of only service workers and consumers, while other nations develop their intellect (H1) and capital (L1) at our expense.

Well if it's good enough for a construction worker then it's good enough for you.

[Steel and Fire and Stone]

You made more money then you were worth, now you're going to get what you're worth and no more.

Setting an government induced, arbitrary value on one's worth is a left-liberal position. The government created the problem by advertising IT and other technical jobs to foreign nationals, offering the enticement of a green card to all comers.

How are American kids supposed to afford a $100,000+ college degree on a maximum salary of $60-70K a year?

"Markets" are about supply and demand. When domestic supply is artifically reduced through government intervention, demand will be filled by third parties (foreign nationals).

It is arrogant or ignornant to blame this guy, when you ignore the government's long standing role in flipping the IT labor market on it's head. IT IS NOT THE US GOVERNMENTS ROLE to resolve a perceived labor-supply crisis by using GOVERNMENT ASSETS (i.e. H1 visa's ) to benefit one class of American's (IT Pimps and Managers like you) over others (the average American IT worker).

Why don't YOU go home to the Democrat party. Every IT Job Pimp I've every met has been a card-carrying left-wing Democrat, especially those supplying the government labor market.

[nobdysfool]

I am a programmer with lots of skills, have been back to school to learn new technology, and still can't find a job in IT. It is useless to learn new technology when every employer requires 2, 5, 8, 10 or more years of experience. Nobody is willing to take somebody who just learned the technology. As far as pay goes, I have offered my services for as little as 10 dollars an hour with no lock

For IT recruiters now, it's a buyer's market. They jack up the qualifications to the point where they want someone who knows everything there is to know in the IT field, knowing full well that no such person exists. They have unrealistic expectations, and think that a certification or degree counts for more than real-world experience. Some of us have been so busy actually doing the work that we haven't had time to take the test to get a piece of paper that says we know what we know.

I've been in IT for almost 7 years now, and I am between jobs. I work for a Staffing firm who has kept me pretty busy over the last 15 months, with very little down-time. There is a position in the works for me, which if it happens, will mean I take a pay cut, but it's work, and beats the heck out of unemployment. it will also expand my skillset, and possibly give me the opportunity to take some cert exams and add to my certs. It's tough right now for everyone, but it will get better. That's the optimist in me talking....

[Mr. Bird]

You raise a good point. The H1 program is not in itself a ripoff. However, certain market conditions have changed and warrant a review of the occupations covered under this program. There are still severe shortages in non-IT occupations such as those in health care.

[johncatl]

The Government is already involved...by creating the VISA PROGRAM IN THE FIRST PLACE!

It isn't about skills, it's about getting around the issue of the cost of living (surviving) in the US versus the desire for cheap labor - legal or illegal.

Greed is apolitical. It is neither Democrat or Republican or Libertarian or whatever.

I'm a free market capitalist of the first order but if you think that the "market" in the US represents a "free market" just check out what the leadership of Delta Airlines did to ensure their retirement benefits in the event of bankruptcy. If you think that Corporate Management is accountable to stockholders, the SEC, the Government or the even the law, you're on something.

The results of our "free market" are writ large in the lines at the unemployment office and the price of stock.

Take your comments about education, salary, experience, field of work and put 'em where they belong (same place as a suppository)!

P.S. I've done all of the above and it sucks!