Conservatives Fight Over Islam

NewsMax.com ^ | Feb. 20, 2003 | Wes Vernon

[TLBSHOW]

Conservatives Fight Over Islam

Wes Vernon, NewsMax.com

Thursday, Feb. 20, 2003

WASHINGTON – A fierce, nearly three-week running battle of accusations and counter-accusations between two conservative icons has brought to the front burner a long-festering debate among President Bush’s supporters on how far the White House should go in seeking Islamic support.

Frank Gaffney, president of the Center for Security Policy and a former assistant secretary of defense in the Reagan administration, has accused two White House officials – Ali Talbah and his predecessor Sukhail Khan – of putting President Bush in the company of “people who have made no secret of their sympathy for terrorists, provided them financial support, excused their murderous attacks and/or sought to impede the prosecution of the war against them.” Gaffney reiterated these charges in his Washington Times column Tuesday.

Gaffney’s initial comment in this flap came at the annual Conservative Political Action Conference on Jan. 31.

His remarks sparked a stinging rebuttal from Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform and one-time confidant of Newt Gingrich when the latter was speaker of the House.

“There is no place in the conservative movement for racial prejudice, religious bigotry or ethnic hatred,” Norquist told Gaffney in a Feb. 5 letter. He went on to accuse his fellow conservative of attacking each of the two White House officials because of their Muslim faith.

Norquist then banished Gaffney from further attendance at his influential coalition meetings that he holds every Wednesday, pending an accepted apology to Tulbah and Sukhail. He added, “It is important that we, as conservatives, stand up against bigotry, racism, and religious hatred whenever it raises its ugly head.”

Gaffney replied with a three-and-a-half page single-spaced letter to Norquist that offered no apology. Gaffney not only refused to apologize but also cited chapter and verse of quotes from radical Islamic fundamentalists (Wahhabists) who had been received cordially at the White House.

He also stressed that he had taken pains to “express distinction between such Islamists, and what is, I believe, the majority of Muslims in this country whom the former [Wahhabists] are determined to recruit, intimidate, and dominate through a variety of techniques.”

The CSP boss took Norquist to task for his involvement with Islamic Institute, through which, Gaffney argued, Norquist and his associates had been instrumental in “promoting and facilitating Wahabbis’ access to the executive and legislative branches of government” and thereby “could prove politically damaging and strategically detrimental to our cause and the well-being of our country.”

Norquist says Islamic Institute “was formed to promote within the Muslim world the fact that the Koran and Islam are perfectly consistent with a free and open society.”

In an interview with NewsMax.com, Norquist said he wrote his letter because the two young White House Muslims whom Gaffney criticized were merely underlings carrying out decisions made by more senior White House officials.

“He decided to single out the kid who was a Muslim in both cases, even though the people making decisions are Presbyterians and Catholics, not Muslims,” the ATR president said.

In his latest column, Gaffney reports that one Muslim representative in a group visiting the Oval Office just days after 9/11, Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, had said two days before the attack: “This country is facing a terrible fate. This country stands condemned.”

Why FBI Couldn’t Find Him

When FBI agents visited Yusuf’s home, they were stunned to learn from his wife that he was unavailable because he was with the president.

However, Norquist, while “not vouching for anyone,” said the Muslims who had access to the president passed muster with the Secret Service and the FBI or they wouldn’t have been there.

“If they were a security risk, not if they said something stupid, if they were a security risk or a problem ... the Secret Service would pull them out,” he said.

Gaffney describes as “bizarre” FBI Director Robert Mueller’s decision to speak to the American Muslim Council last year despite that group’s “long record of activities hostile to the Bush administration’s prosecution of the war on terror.”

Walking the sometimes unclear lines between peace-loving Muslim Americans and those who pose a threat is a dilemma symbolized by the bitter dispute between Gaffney and Norquist, two well-known conservatives in the Bush constituency.

[Poohbah]

Gaffney probably doesn't know him, either.

Frank's usually a solid national security analyst--I don't know what got into him to shoot his mouth off like that.

[TLBSHOW]

Don't worry Ann knows me...
Please back that up because I have freepmail to prove you wrong.
.........read this folks

Islamist 'enabler' threatens 'grave harm to Bush presidency,' Gaffney warns

A prominent conservative leader who allegedly has used undeclared foreign money and top political connections to promote terrorist sympathizers is an 'enabler' who threatens 'to do grave harm to the Bush presidency.'

Center for Security Policy President Frank Gaffney issued the warning in a letter to Grover Norquist, founding chairman of the Islamic Institute, after Norquist publicly accused Gaffney of 'racism and bigotry' and banished him from a weekly strategy group. Norquist's actions came in response to Gaffney's criticism of a White House official who allowed pro-terrorist Muslim groups access to the White House complex on January 16.

'People who afford terrorist-supporters or -apologists and their organizations entree into the White House deserve to be both challenged and criticized,' Gaffney wrote in response. Norquist, an anti-tax activist and Washington networker who often purports to speak in the name of President Bush, told Gaffney in a widely distributed letter that the Center for Security Policy leader was guilty of 'racial prejudice, religous bigotry or ethnic hatred' because the criticized official is a Muslim.

In response, Gaffney and American Conservative Union leader David Keene slammed Norquist for 'employing "Stalinist tactics" against those who disagree with Mr. Norquist's role in brokering access to the Bush White House,' the Washington Times reported on February 7.

Norquist has been criticized for promoting what is called the Wahhabi lobby, a Saudi-funded network designed to dominate and radicalize Islam in America, at the expense of other Muslim groups whose stand against terrorism is unequivocal.

'Why have you gone to such lengths to defend - to say nothing of legitimize and advance the agendas of - terrorist sympathizers and others hostile to everything for which American conservatives stand?' Gaffney asked Norquist in a responding letter. Gaffney listed his concerns:

* The Islamic Institute, which Norquist co-founded and houses in his Americans for Tax Reform office, received seed money from an avowed supporter of Hezbollah, the terrorist group that killed 241 US Marines in a 1983 suicide bomb attack.

* The Islamic Institute reportedly is 'predominantly funded by foreign governments, shady Saudi sources, and US-based groups raided by the Treasury Department-led Operation Green Quest Task Force for allegedly funding suicide bombers, al Qaeda and other terrorists' activities.'

* Norquist led conservative opposition to parts of the Bush administration's anti-terrorism legislation, without disclosing that his Islamic group was dependent on such funds.

* Norquist has affiliated himself with the radical National Committee to Protect Political Freedom (NCPPF), from which he received an award shortly before the September 11, 2001 attacks, despite the group's thirty-year public track record of promoting domestic and international terrorism.

* Norquist reportedly introduced Sami Al-Arian, whom federal law enforcement officials say is a leader of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, to then-candidate George W. Bush during the 2000 campaign. Televised videotape shows Al-Arian raising money in the US for terrorists.

Click here for the full text of Gaffney's letter.

One American Muslim group has warned for years about extremist and terrorist penetration of Islamic organizations in the US. Click here for its reports.
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/index.jsp?section=today&headline_id=149
.........

If President Reagan thought enough to of nominated Frank Gaffney when he was President, then that trumps Norquist any day in my book.
......
In April 1987, Mr. Gaffney was nominated by President Reagan to become the Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy, the senior position in the Defense Department with responsibility for policies involving nuclear forces, arms control and U.S.-European defense relations. He acted in that capacity for seven months during which time, he was the Chairman of the prestigious High Level Group, NATO's senior politico-military committee. He also represented the Secretary of Defense in key U.S.-Soviet negotiations and ministerial meetings.

[Howlin]

And for someone who cares about the Presdient ..

To: Poohbah

Prove to me Bush is not a liberal Republican?

149 posted on 12/20/2002 11:12 PM EST by TLBSHOW
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 142 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

[hchutch]

There is one major difference:

Clinton protected the folks HE was in pictures with and obstructed investigations that were, IMO, critical to national security. These arrests seem to indicate that Bush apparently has NOT done such a thing.

[justshe]

And for someone who cares about the President...you certainly have a strange way of showing it.

Mo1......you mean like THIS way of showing it? Face it...TLB has become a DU shill. He is compromised. If he was just now registering with FR, and refused to answer specific questions from FReepers, he would be rightly outed....and receive the ZOT!

---

It does not look like Frank plans to drop it and me I have always wondered why The President and Mr Powell attacked Pat Robertson so hard and calls Islam Peace, looks like that answer is coming rather we like what it is or not. Because Islam isn't peace its a bloody cult.
20 posted on 02/17/2003 11:06 PM PST by TLBSHOW

I think I will have to say this country is being sold out from within and from who is what really saddens me tonight.
23 posted on 02/17/2003 11:27 PM PST by TLBSHOW

Thanks, I was afraid that was going to be my confirmation about President Bush. After refusing to go after Clinton and the CFR signing I have been on a fast track to this point but always hoping I was wrong.

I have fought it tooth and nail, many times standing up for him, but in my heart with my gift when he refused to bring Clinton up on charges in an instant that day the truth was told to me and I have fought it a long time back and forth hoping I was wrong maybe once since I recieved the gift of truth. I have not ever been wrong if I follow my first thoughts and not try and fight them.

I am deeply sadden tonight and I am going to sign off for the evening with this post. Frank J. Gaffney, Jr. is correct and he will be slammed but good by these people.
26 posted on 02/18/2003 1:10 AM PST by TLBSHOW

Do you understand what is being implied in this thread? Its been a long day since this thread started and I have done nothing but study all resources that I have and I do understand even better what is implied than I did when I found this story last night at Midnight. I am still doing research and study and I hoped what is being implied would be false. I say I had hoped!
34 posted on 02/18/2003 2:22 PM PST by TLBS

72 posted on 02/19/2003 1:34 PM PST by justshe (Eliminate Freepathons! Become a monthly donor. Only YOU can prevent Freepathons!)

---

Zot!

[Mo1]

BANG .. BANG .. BANG .... What's that noise??


Oh .. It's me banging MY HEAD UP AGAINST THE WALL

You are unbelievable

[TLBSHOW]

Hi Ann just setting the record stright as we all are allowed opinions on MANY different subjects as you well know.

:>)

Kwanzaa: A Holiday From The FBI 2002 BUSH

http://www.anncoulter.org/columns/2002/122402.htm

Kwanzaa: Holiday
from the FBI 2001 CLINTON
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/coulter.html

[Thorondir]

I don't think he is a friend of terrorists, just a whitewasher of iSLAM as a Religion of Peace. It is not.

Human civilization had better wake up soon and get as serious about its survival as the seventh-century savages of Islam are about our annihilation!
SLEEPING AMERICANS ARE EASIER TO KILL.
Do not be lulled to sleep by the Religion of Peace defenders.

Click here and never forget the face of Islam and what it wants for you infidels.

George Bush tries repeatedly to reassure us about the “religion of peace”, but:

Why is the religion of peace directly responsible for 28 out of the 30 violent conflicts raging in the world today?

Why is the religion of peace responsible for the vast majority of chattel slavery in the world today?

Why is the religion of peace responsible for the vast majority of terrorism in the 20th and 21st Centuries?

Why are the practitioners of the religion of peace routinely slaughtering unarmed practitioners of every other religion wherever they can get away with it?

Why does the religion of peace call for the murder of anyone who converts from the religion of peace to another religion?

Why do so many of the believers of the religion of peace look forward to the opportunity to rape 72 virgins in heaven if they die while killing innocent women and children of other religions? Is it a god they worship, or just sex? If a god, then shouldn’t heaven have more to do with him than their libidos?

Why do the leaders of the religion of peace routinely issue fatwas (death warrants) for anybody who questions their holy book of peace and their holy prophet of peace?

Why is the religion of peace responsible for the sexual mutilation of millions of little girls and the savage oppression of women?

Why did millions of the practitioners of the religion of peace laugh, cheer and dance in the street because 3,000 innocent men, women and children were murdered by seventeen men who supposedly “hijacked” the religion of peace? And why don’t the real practitioners of the religion of peace condemn the supposed “hijackers” of their religion? Why the deafening silence? Why the smiles? Why the cheers and high fives?

Hmmmm?

Perhaps I just don’t understand this whole PEACE thing. Did the definition of the word change, or is somebody just blowing a lot of smoke?

[cyncooper]

Clinton protected the folks HE was in pictures with and obstructed investigations that were, IMO, critical to national security. These arrests seem to indicate that Bush apparently has NOT done such a thing.

Exactly.

[cyncooper]

Staying on the subject of Grover Norquist, I see.

[Mo1]

No one is denying there aren't a large number of Muslims
that .. how should say .. Are not real nice people

But there are also some that are not bad people

I have neighbors that is Muslim .. their kids play with my kids .. I talk to them many times .. and so far they haven't tried to kill me

[justshe]

Perhaps you should address your questions to the gentleman I saw interviewed on Fox News Channel yesterday.

You see, he is a Muslim...an ACTIVE, practicing Muslim who immigrated to this country.

He is also a survivor of the WTC.

He is also the father of a son who is currently in Kuwait.

His son is a United States Marine.

His son has BEEN a United States Marine for the past 18 years.

Radical practioners of MANY religions have bastardized their religions in an attempt to further their own causes throughtout history. And as such, have been identified as the terrorists they became.

This should, in no way, cause the defenders of the United States and its' Consitution to engage in emotional, broad-brush condemnation of others who practice that religion.

[Thorondir]

I know. I have three friends who are muslims. They are very nice people, but they are nice DESPITE Islam, not because of it; just as Christians can be proud, unforgiving, selfish jerks despite Christianity, not because of it. I have read the Koran and some of the Hadith and the Sharia. These defining documents of Islam are ugly, violent and sick. The Koran even says a Muslim can lie if it is to deceive an infidel (that's you and me, my friend). It forbids muslims from having Jews or Christians as friends. Which makes me wonder what my muslim "friends" think when they read those passages. I wonder what they think when they read these sweet passages: Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191)

"Ye are the best of peoples evolved for mankind." (Koran 3:110)

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and genitals cut off, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)

"Not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" (Koran 5:51)

"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)

"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)

"If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them [infidels]" (Koran 8:65).

Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (Koran 9:3)

"Fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Koran 9:5)

Our God tells us to "fight the unbelievers" and "He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them" (Koran 9:14).

"Until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Koran 9:29)

"Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (9:39).

"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)

"Murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123)

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:40)

"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)

"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)

"strike off the heads of the disbelievers" (Koran 47:4)

"Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (Koran 69:30-37)

"You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' " (Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177)

The Prophet killed the men of the Jewish tribe Bani Quraiza (some 600 to 800 of them) and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims All the other Jews of Medina were exiled. (Bukhari 5:59:362)

The Prophet had the date-palms of the Jewish tribe of Bani-Al- Nadir burnt and cut down. "It was with Allah's permission" (Koran 59:5)

The Prophet said to Sa'd, :The Bani Quraiza have agreed to accept your verdict" Sa'd said, "Kill all their men and take their women and children as slaves" The Prophet replied, "You have judged according to God's Judgment" (Bukhari 5:59:447)

"The Christians say: The Christ is the son of Allah; "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:29)

These are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them." (Sura 9:30)

"Unbelievers (Christians) are those who say: 'God is one of three.' There is but one God. If they do not desist from so saying, those of them that disbelieve shall be sternly punished." (Surah 5:73)

[Thorondir]

Well, I am not condeming anyone, sir. I am criticizing a religion, the defining documents of which are violent and hateful to women and every other religion. Islam, by definition of its docments, is a cult of misoginy, oppression, deception and violent conquest.

And don't even start by comparing it to the isolated and universally condemned incidents of violence committed by practitioners of every other religion. Sure the OT called for the particular wars of particular people in particular instances, but those are a far cry from the Koran's call for blanket oppression and slaughter of all non-muslims.

When ONE Jewish terrorist did his evil deed, he was UNIVERSALLY condemned by Jews the world over. When the Sons of Islam slaughter unarmed (non-muslim) men, women and children, the vast majority of Muslims laugh, dance in the streets and throw high fives. Does that seem like a difference of spirit to you?

Moral relativism is every bit as evil as it is cowardly and stupid. I'm not accusing you of it, just warning you against it.

[justshe]

Thank you the warning. I think your agenda is very clear as well.

[Sabertooth]

There is one major difference:

Clinton protected the folks HE was in pictures with and obstructed investigations that were, IMO, critical to national security. These arrests seem to indicate that Bush apparently has NOT done such a thing.

That's a fair point, as far as Al Arian goes.

However, since he's been on an FBI watch list for years, there's no excuse for Norquist providing him withg access to Bush during the 2000 campaign. And it's Norquist's appallingly bad judgement (at best) that is at issue, not only with Al Arian, but with all of the terrorist sympathizers whith whom he's chosen to associate.

While we shouldn't necessarily fault President Bush for occasionally getting and acting on bad advice, those who gave the advice should be called to account, no?

[Thorondir]

I think your agenda is very clear as well.

I hope so. I have no problem living with Buddists, Hindus, Jews, Taoists, Confucianists, Protestants, Mormons, Catholics, Animists, ancestor-worshipers, Athiests or even Wiccans, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT PROFESS A NEED TO DECEIVE AND MURDER EVERYONE ELSE. Nor do I desire or call for the maltreatment of Muslims in any way. I just think it's foolish to blind ourselves to the truth, especially when that truth is a serious threat to our survival.

There, now. I have made it even more clear to you. What is yours?

[hchutch]

Look, a lot of this is an issue because Frank Gaffney made some comments about a White House aide that were VERY close to slanderous. Comments that at least TWO Freepers heard firsthand. Both of those Freeprs felt that Norquist's characterization of them was accurate.

Neither Gaffney nor Norquist have clean hands on this one, and as far as I'm concerned, Grover Norquist needs to reconsider some of the people he has associated himself with. At the same time, Gaffney needs to put up with proof about the allegations that he made with regards to the aide in question, or he needs to apologize.

Had he merely expressed concern about some of the Moslem leaders that were in the White House, Norquist would not have a leg to stand on. But Gaffney made serious accusations he did NOT back up with proof at CPAC, and Norquist called him on it.

Norquist's "bad advice" aside, he appears to be right about Gaffney's comments. Hold Norquist accountable, but if Gaffney does NOT produce proof of his allegations against that aide, then he'd better be held accountable, too. And quite frankly, I consider slander to be far worse than "giving bad advice."

[Chapita]

We all know why W doesn't want anything framed as a "crusade" but Gaffney is right!