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To: Illbay
"The very existence of matter and energy begs the question "where did these things come from?".

Wrong. The very existence of that QUESTION can only come from someone who HAS to think in terms of "beginning, middle, and end."

Assertion without proof, and even if proven does not invalidate statement.

Our minds do not readily accept the concept of "eternity" or "infinity."

Even when we can "define" the words, or the mathematical constructs, most of us can't deal with something that has no beginning, middle and end.

The Cartesian plane, the Fourier series representation of a square wave, the parabola, hyperbolic functions, we can deal with the concept quite well thank you.

Matter and energy are because they always WERE and they always WILL BE. Period.

This cannot be proven, but it does by virtue of the fact that an answer was attempted, prove my original point.

61 posted on 02/14/2003 11:00:05 PM PST by Calvinist_Dark_Lord (Where are those "golden plates" by the way?)
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord
Assertion without proof, and even if proven does not invalidate statement.

Wrong. In turn, assertion of a child who when he doesn't like the answer, will ask the question again. And again.

It's too bad that you can't conceive of the inconceivable. Too bad that you can't realize there are things that, in this stage of your existence, it is impossible for you to realize.

Right now, you are limited. You have ONLY your experience in mortality, in time and space, to draw from, so you try to use that as a measuring-stick for everything else.

If you will read up on it you will find that modern physics tells us that at the subatomic level, the universe gets very, very, very strange. It is nearly inexplicable at the level of the average man's understanding. Even concepts such as time and location in space seem to have no meaning.

The elements are eternal. They just ARE, and the notion of "beginning, middle, end" ultimately have no bearing on the way the universe operates.

Too bad you can't at least admit that there is something to that notion.

74 posted on 02/15/2003 7:04:23 AM PST by Illbay (If the hunger for liberty destroys order, the hunger for order will destroy liberty. - Will Durant)
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord
This cannot be proven,...

Neither can the existence of God, at least to the extent of consensus.

75 posted on 02/15/2003 7:05:30 AM PST by Illbay (If the hunger for liberty destroys order, the hunger for order will destroy liberty. - Will Durant)
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