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To: WhiskeyPapa
Lee clearly did that before his resignation was accepted.

No, he didn't. Lee didn't "adhere" to any enemies of the U.S. in Virginia between April 17 and April 25, 1861, because Virginia was at peace with the United States. He entered service in the Virginia Militia, period.

Furthermore, Lee was no longer a citizen of the United States. The treason clause does not stipulate, but we can infer from its wording, that it does not apply to noncitizens, so that after April 17th, Robert E. Lee no longer fell under the treason clause. Constitutional action by the State of Virginia thus delivered Lee from the imputation of treason, even if Virginia and the Unites States had immediately come to blows, which they did not.

As the txt above shows, Lee received a communication from the secessionists on April 20, thuis begging the question of whether or not he had been in communication with them even before he posted his resignation.

Your demonstration of Nolan's malice and persecutive zeal is helpful, but it doesn't wash your argument. A request for an interview about a state militia commission does not constitute the blackguarding and treachery that you and Nolan so very clearly desire, out of the fond hopes of your own malevolence, to show that Lee engaged in.

It just isn't there. He resigned, Walt. And he told everyone who needed to know what he was doing, and when. He didn't play Winfield Scott or Abraham Lincoln false, and he received the President's representative and dealt with him candidly.

You just repeat your backbiting and weaselwording exercises about Lee's resignation date, versus its acceptance date, versus again the last date that Lee received monies owed for his service in a prior period, etc. etc., over and over, after you have been shown you are wrong; and then you quote a notorious polemical pickaxe, Alan Nolan, as your "authority" for your vilification. That's slothful induction and worse, it's just bad faith in argument.

384 posted on 12/30/2002 3:07:19 AM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus
Lee clearly did that before his resignation was accepted.

No, he didn't. Lee didn't "adhere" to any enemies of the U.S. in Virginia between April 17 and April 25, 1861....

As the text indicated, Aleck Stephens was conferring with VA officials as early as April 19 with a view to Virginia joining the rebellion.

But that is moot, as the Supreme Court ruled that no act or ordinance of secession had the force of law. Lee never stopped being a citizen of the United States -- he was always subject to the laws.

Had the north been more vindictive, it is not a stretch -at all- to imagine Lee, Davis and the other secesh leaders in the stifling hoods that the Booth conspracy defendants wore at their trials. And it's not a stretch to imagine them on the same gallows where the four Booth conspirators were hanged.

Walt

393 posted on 12/30/2002 5:38:46 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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To: lentulusgracchus
Furthermore, Lee was no longer a citizen of the United States. The treason clause does not stipulate, but we can infer from its wording, that it does not apply to noncitizens, so that after April 17th, Robert E. Lee no longer fell under the treason clause.

Hmmmm....

How about this:

"Whereas the safety of the United States demands that all enemies who have entered upon the territory of the United States as part of an invasion or predatory incursion ... should be promptly tried in accordance with the Law of War; now, therefore, I ... do hereby proclaim that all persons who are subjects, citizens or residents of any nation at war with the United States or who give obedience to or act under the direction of any such nation, and who during time of war enter or attempt to enter the United States or any territory or possession thereof, through coastal or boundary defenses, and are charged with committing or attempting or preparing to commit sabotage, espionage, hostile or warlike acts, or violations of the law of war, shall be subject to the law of war and to the jurisdiction of military tribunals; and that such persons shall not be privileged to seek any remedy or maintain any proceeding, directly or indirectly, or to have any such remedy or proceeding sought on their behalf, in the courts of the United States."

How does that sound?

Oh, wait. That was Franklin Roosevelt in 1942, not Abraham Lincoln in 1862.

The Supreme Court denied habeas corpus petetions on 8 Nazi sabateurs, and six were executed.

Further:

"But Royall [the Nazi's military defense attorney]wasn't finished. Determined to challenge the President's proclamation that the men should face a military tribunal, he sought to win his clients' freedom by demanding a writ of habeas corpus. Though the Supreme Court had been adjourned for the summer, it convened in a special session on July 29 to consider the matter. Royall argued that Long Island and Florida beaches could not be characterized as "zones of military operation." There had been no combat there, and no plausible threat of invasion. Royall argued that the civil courts were functioning, and under the circumstances they were the appropriate venue for the case to be heard. [Yes, he even cited Milligan]

Biddle [the government attorney] argued that the United States and Germany were at war, and cited a law passed by Congress in 1798 that stated, "Whenever there is a declared war, and the President makes public proclamation of the event, all native citizens, denizens or subjects of the hostile nation shall be liable to be apprehended ... as alien enemies." On July 31 the Supreme Court unanimously denied Royall's appeal, writing, "The military commission was lawfully constituted ... petitioners are held in lawful custody for trial before the military commission and have not shown cause for being discharged by writ of habeas corpus."

The members of the tribunal then deliberated for two days before reaching a verdict. Finally, on August 3, in accordance with instructions, the tribunal's verdict was delivered by Army plane directly to Roosevelt, at Hyde Park, in four thick manila envelopes. It found all eight men guilty and recommended death by electrocution, but added, "In view of the apparent assistance given to the prosecution by defendants Ernest Peter Burger and George John Dasch, the commission unanimously recommends that the sentence of each of these two defendants ... be commuted from death to life imprisonment." On August 7 General Cox, the tribunal's provost marshal, received instructions from President Roosevelt: all but Dasch and Burger were to be electrocuted at noon the following day."

The six condemned were all dead by 1:30 PM the next day.

Walt

399 posted on 12/30/2002 7:19:31 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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