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To: WhiskeyPapa
"These men were treated 'like for like' as retribution for the abuse of black Union POW's in rebel hands."

Mouthing such utter nonsense is beneath contempt. Nothing could have been more total than the indifference that Union oficers would have had for Confederate treatment of black Union POWs. Having a sense for history means understanding how people of the time thought rather than how Hollywood movies portray them as having thought.

255 posted on 12/24/2002 8:24:53 PM PST by Aurelius
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To: Aurelius
"These men were treated 'like for like' as retribution for the abuse of black Union POW's in rebel hands."

Mouthing such utter nonsense is beneath contempt. Nothing could have been more total than the indifference that Union oficers would have had for Confederate treatment of black Union POWs. Having a sense for history means understanding how people of the time thought rather than how Hollywood movies portray them as having thought.

"The "Immortal Captives" affair -- a sourced chronology

What follows is a sourced chronology for this affair, based mostly on message traffic in the OR. 6/15/64:

CS Gen. Sam Jones informs US Gen. J.G. Foster that there areabout 50 US officers now in Charleston, to be housed in an area currently under Federal fire. (OR, Series I, vol. 35, part II, page 132.)

6/16/64: Foster protests to Jones, telling him that he has forwarded the correspondence to the President, along with a recommendation that a like number of CS officers be forwarded to Federal positions for similar treatment. (Ibid, page 134.)

6/21/64: Halleck informs Foster that the Sec'y of War has authorized sending 50 CS officers to the Charleston area to be placed under fire.(Ibid, page 143; a list of the Rebel officers is given on page 147, the US officers on page 145.)

7/1/64 & 7/4/64: Foster informs Jones of his intent to retaliate. (Ibid,pages 163-164.)

7/29/64: Foster informs Jones that he has been authorized to make a special exchange of prisoners, in order to resolve the issue. (Ibid, page198.)

8/2/64: Jones agrees to the exchange. (Ibid, page 210.)

8/4/64: Foster informs Halleck that the exchange has taken place. (Ibid,page 212-213.) It appears that the 50 Confederates were never placed under fire of Confederate guns; see OR, Series II, vol. 7, page 607. Foster also tells Halleck on this date (OR, Series I, vol. 35, part II, page 213) that he thinks there are still about 600 US officer prisoners in Charleston. Foster speaks encouragingly of exchanging for them.

8/8/64: Halleck writes to Foster, saying that 600 CS prisoners will be sent to him for treatment "in the same manner as our officers, prisoners of war, are treated in Charleston." No exchange will be made without authorization from Washington. (OR, Series II, vol. 7, page 567.)

8/15/64: Foster writes to Halleck, acknowledging receipt of Halleck'snote of 8/8. Foster tells Halleck that as soon as "the 600 prisoners arrive" they will be placed under fire on Morris Island. (Ibid, pages597-598.) 8/15/64: Foster writes to Jones, saying that information has crossed the lines that about 600 Federal officer prisoners are in Charleston, housed under fire. (OR, Series II, vol. 7, page 598.)

8/20/64: Jones replies to Foster, confirming that there are about 600 Federal officers in Charleston, but pleading that these are men who are simply enroute to a new camp, and they are not being sent to Charlestonfor the purpose of being placed under Federal gunfire. (Ibid, page 625.)8/25/64: Foster forwards Jones's message of 8/20 to Halleck. (Ibid, page675.)

8/26/64: Foster informs Admiral Dahlgren that 600 CS officers have arrived for the purpose of being placed under fire on Morris Island. (Ibid, page 683.)

9/4/64: Foster informs Jones that he will be placing CS officer prisonersunder fire. (Ibid, page 763.)9/7/64: The CS officers are placed in an open stockade on Morris Island. (OR, Series I, vol. 35, part II, page 275.)

9/10/64: Jones protests to Foster. (Ibid, page 279.)

9/15/64: Foster responds, describing the stockade and shelter arrangements, and the ration that he has ordered to be given. (OR SeriesII, vol. 7, page 826.)

10/13/64: CS Gen. William Hardee informs Foster that the Federal prisoners in Charleston have been removed from the city. (Ibid, page981-82.)

10/15/64: Foster responds, asking for confirmation. (Ibid, page 990.)

10/17/64: Foster informs Hardee that the prisoners on Morris Island will be moved without delay. (Ibid, page 1007.)

10/31/64: Foster informs Hardee that the prisoners have been moved. (Ibid, page 1073.) According to Joslyn, citing several memoirs anddiaries, the men were moved on October 20, arriving at Fort Pulaski onOctober 23.

11/19/64: To relieve over-crowding at Pulaski, 179 of the men are moved to Hilton Head. (Joslyn, page 155, citing prisoner accounts.)2/5/65: Grant authorizes the exchange of all prisoners within theconfines of Foster's department. (OR Series II, vol. 8, page 219.)

It isnot until June that the last of the officers are released. Let me close with some comments.

Where Ms. Joslyn and others go wrong in their study of this affair is in ignoring the very fact that there was a war on. The two sides in a war generally do not trust each other, and onCivil War POW issues this was very true by 1864. It appears from allaccounts that the Federal prisoners were in Charleston as an expedientmatter, while they were awaiting the construction of a prison in Columbia. Ms. Joslyn wants, indeed, she appears to expect, that the Federal authorities should take the Confederates at their word on this. But in August of 1864, tales of Andersonville were filtering northwards; in addition, the Confederates had mis-treated black Union troops and their white officers, had violated the exchange and parole cartel by returning to action thousands of men from the Vicksburg garrison without proper exchange, and had stolen food stuffs and clothing that had been sent through the lines for the use of Federal prisoners.

It matters not a whit that some of these beliefs may have been ill-founded or even untrue; what matters is that the Federal authorities =did= believe them, and had a rational basis for believing them. (And a lot of them =were= true.) Nordoes it matter that the CSA might have had equal complaints against theFederal government. By this point in time, neither side had any reason totrust the other, and many reasons to distrust the other, where POW's wereconcerned. So, when the Federals hear that prisoners are in Charleston,they aren't going to just take Confederate Gen. Sam Jones's word for itthat this is a temporary expedient. They believed that placing prisoners under fire is a violation of the laws of war, and they therefore believed they need to retaliate in order to protect their soldiers. And they are justified in doing so, based on the information they had at the time. My reading of Joslyn's book reveals nothing happening to the Confederate officers that did not happen to inmates at Libby or Andersonville or Elmira."

-- from the ACW moderated newsgroup

Found this too:

"Headquarters Department Trans-Mississippi,Shreveport, La, June 13, 1863

Maj. Gen. R. Taylor Commanding District of Louisiana:

GENERAL:

In answer to the communication of Brigadier-General Hebert, ofthe 6th instant, asking what disposition should be made of negro slaves taken in arms, I am directed by Lieutenant-General Smith to say no quarter should be shown them. If taken prisoners, however, they should be turned over to the executive authorities of the States in which they may be captured, in obedience to the proclamation of the President of the Confederate States, sections 3 and 4, published to the Army in General Orders, No. 111, Adjutant and Inspector General's Office, series of 1862. Should negroes thus taken be executed by the military authorities capturing them it would certainly provoke retaliation. By turning them over to the civil authorities to be tried by the laws of the state, no exception can be taken.I am, general, very respectfully, your obedient servant,

S. S. Anderson"

It is beyond grotesque to refer to the rebel traitors as heroes.

Walt

257 posted on 12/24/2002 10:53:33 PM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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