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To: Hemingway's Ghost
Wrong again. I'm insisting that the girl has as much right to attend a gym class as the straight girls do.

Fine. If this girl is asked to change elsewhere, you won't throw a fit?

And yes, as one familiar with the concept of "rights," I'm defending someone's rights in this instance, not someone's "feelings" or "comfort level."

Until such time as they get asked to change elsewhere.

Who's pandering? Are you suggesting that defending a lesbian's rights necessarily means I'm pandering? This suggestion probably says more about what you really think than you'd care to admit.

Nice attempt to paint me as a homophobe. Won't work however.

You didn't read the story, did you . . . "Don't ask, don't tell" was solidly in place in this instance up until some other girl outed her.

She could have denied it and stayed in.

But that's beside the point: you've stated there's a good chance you yourself have changed in front of homosexuals. Knowing that, have you been damaged? Have you been wronged? Have your rights been violated in any way?

Sophistry. I already said, what I don't know in that case, doesn't even register with me.

Why haven't I? It probably has something to do with the fact that I never argued a lesbian has more right to use the girl's changing room than boys do. But that's just a guess.

That has been the consequence of what you are arguing. What you have been arguing, whether you are conscious of it or not - and this is the point where we argue: I don't disagree that this lesbian girl should be allowed to attend gym class or any other class. The changing rooms is the issue. You seem to be suggesting that using a different changing room, if the girls are uncomfortable with her being with them, is somehow hindering her ability to attend that class.

Ivan

214 posted on 12/19/2002 2:21:48 PM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
Fine. If this girl is asked to change elsewhere, you won't throw a fit?

Some common-ground solution could be found for everyone, yes.

Nice attempt to paint me as a homophobe. Won't work however.

I don't think you're a homophobe at all. I think you've adopted the "us vs. them" mentality, though.

Sophistry. I already said, what I don't know in that case, doesn't even register with me.

So there goes your claim that anything actionable on the part of the straight girls is going on here. Nobody's rights are being trampled . . . except for the lesbian girl's . . .

That has been the consequence of what you are arguing. What you have been arguing, whether you are conscious of it or not - and this is the point where we argue: I don't disagree that this lesbian girl should be allowed to attend gym class or any other class. The changing rooms is the issue. You seem to be suggesting that using a different changing room, if the girls are uncomfortable with her being with them, is somehow hindering her ability to attend that class.

No, what I've been arguing is two things: 1, the straight girls don't have a right to feel comfortable or un-offended. That's not a right, and I've countered the people on this thread who think the straight girls' rights have been violated in any way. 2: the only person whose rights were violated were the lesbian girl's, when the gym teacher summarily banished her from attending gym class because of who she was and how the other girls might feel. The school's a public accomodation.


215 posted on 12/20/2002 6:10:45 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost
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