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To: donh
You are being totally ridiculous. For one thing we are definitely intelligent beings, even if we were someone's dream that person/being would have to be at least as intelligent as us.-me-

I am being totally unanswered. Post your proof that the world is not the dream of an infinitely more interesting and complex entity than we are--as far above being intelligent as we are above having primative tropisms.

Don, whether it is a dream or not, it is OUR reality. The dreamer has to be more intelligent than us as you acknowledge. Therefore even in your supposition (which I do not agree with but are just going along with your premise) this reality in which we live in has come about as a result of the actions of an intelligent being. You started with this supposition in order to avoid the clear implications of intelligence in our universe. Your problem is that no matter how you cut it, even when putting all of reality into a dream, you end up with intelligence being the source of order in our reality.

This should be no surprise because the one thing that we can be sure us is Descartes's dictum - I think therefore I am. Somehow, somewhere, no matter how one philosophizes on the issue there is an intelligent being in the Universe therefore there is intelligence in the Universe, an intelligence that cannot be explained by any materialistic explanation.

6,285 posted on 01/31/2003 10:22:10 PM PST by gore3000 (Evolution is whatever lie you want it to be!)
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To: gore3000
This should be no surprise because the one thing that we can be sure us is Descartes's dictum - I think therefore I am. Somehow, somewhere, no matter how one philosophizes on the issue there is an intelligent being in the Universe therefore there is intelligence in the Universe, an intelligence that cannot be explained by any materialistic explanation.

Tell me, do you have proof that the other beings that inhabit your dreams don't actually think, and therefore, are not?

Could you post that proof here?

You don't know squat about what happens behind the veil of reality, because all you have is reality to run tests on. "I think, therefore, I am" is an untestable hypothesis. You might be right, you might be wrong, you'll never know--because knowing, in a workaday critical sense, is a job for beings that can examine evidence, and evidence is the stuff of reality. You just can't peer through that door, until someone fits you with some of those keen 4-D meta-reality goggles--the ones where one pane is grue and the other is bleen. Your opinions about Decartes' principle are just that, pure opinions, one might say, ungrounded in any mundane need for evidence. And they are granted the appropriate level of respect we reserve for such things.

6,303 posted on 02/01/2003 11:53:44 PM PST by donh
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