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To: exmarine
It's an accurate definition. Would you prefer another? If so, please post it (I've been unable to find it in your posts). Then, based upon your definition, please make your argument that value and worth are objective.
3,566 posted on 01/07/2003 5:00:52 PM PST by Junior (Here's to alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all life's problems.)
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To: Junior
Exmarine is pretty clearly confusing "objective" with "objectivism." It has always seemed to me a poor marriage, but objectivism has nonetheless been the underpinning of choice for many christian absolutists, despite the subjective nature of the religious selection. I wouldn't be too hard on him. It's difficult to un-blur the lines once profound faith enters the picture.
3,581 posted on 01/07/2003 5:40:44 PM PST by atlaw
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To: Junior
It's an accurate definition. Would you prefer another? If so, please post it (I've been unable to find it in your posts). Then, based upon your definition, please make your argument that value and worth are objective.

It could be that the problem here is that your way of thinking is so far removed from mine that communication is extremely difficult. It may be that your mind has been so muddled by narcissistic relativism that you are having trouble understanding my reasoning. So, let me try one more time to present my position which is also the truth of the matter.

There is a qualitative difference between YOUR perspective on value, and the real objective value of a human being (by "objective" - I mean universal, essential, independent of human preference). My perspective is illustrated in the maxim "all men are created equal" - this is an objective self-evident truth. My neighbor has just as much objective worth as a human being as my wife, even though my wife is more valuable to me. An orphan with no one to love him has just as much value as a human being as a man with 1,000 friends. Human worth is qualitative not quantitative - get it? Yes, to you, your wife has more value, but you are biased by your love for your wife (understandable and quite normal). But, there is a difference between what I like and what is right and true. You have made them one and the same - this is a qualitative error on your part. There is a difference between your perspective and what is real. Perspectives are often wrong! Slave-holders may like to own slaves, but it is wrong regardless of their like or dis-like; similarly, all human beings are created equal whether or not you like this person more than that person. Again, objective equality is qualitative, not quantitative. Your focus on personal "perspectives" reminds me of the postmodernist self-refuting writings of Foucault (good for a door stop).

It was wrong to slaughter jews whether or not Hitler believed he was right. Do you dispute that statement? In real qualitative terms, all people are equally valuable - they are created equal - but you cann't measure their worth as you have suggested - you are trying to add a quantitative dimension to human worth and that only works form the personal perspective. The personal perspective is important, but this is separate and distinct from the objective qualitative perspective. Your attempt to place quantitative value on human life is akin to the mentality of a slave-trader. Slavery was wrong and for this reason, it was abolished in the West (funny it sill goes on in Sudan and other arab countries). It was on this principle of equality of all men that our nation was founded and has flourished. When Americans lose sight of this principle, tyranny is around the corner. People like you scare me for this reason.

3,734 posted on 01/08/2003 8:30:28 AM PST by exmarine
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