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To: exmarine
What definition of objective would you like to use. I've found about a dozen in the OED, but most boil down to an observable and quantifiable property of an object, as opposed to a property assigned by another. How is worth quantifiable?
3,418 posted on 01/07/2003 9:41:23 AM PST by Junior (The Catholic Rationalist)
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To: Junior
What definition of objective would you like to use. I've found about a dozen in the OED, but most boil down to an observable and quantifiable property of an object, as opposed to a property assigned by another. How is worth quantifiable?

You say values are subjective. This statement itself is an OBJECTIVE statement (making universal claims about values) and is self-refuting and self-stultifiying. If values are subjective, you can make no objective claims about them without contradicting yourself.

Objective is a word with meaning. Thank you for proving that. The concept of objective exists. It simply means universal. If God created the universe and all that is in it including all moral precepts, then to discuss anything "universal" is to automatically defer to God as he created the "universe." Our entire reality is within this universe and God made it. If any abstract idea or moral precept be objective, it must come from God as there is no other possible source. For example, the moral precept "all men are created equal" must be assigned to God as there is no other objective source available. Therefore, if objectivity exists, God is the author. There is no other possible source for objectiveness.

Your only logical refuge is to say all things (morals, rights, human value) are ALL COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE - or relative. That makes you a relativist. If all is subjective, who cares about your subjective opinion, I have my own and I CAN'T BE WRONG in your system. If it is subjective, then I must be right, and you must be right. Therefore, when I argue that human value is objective, I CAN'T BE WRONG, because in your world, whatever view I hold is right under the rules of subjectivism. Thus, you contradict yourself when you argue the point. All you can do is remain silent - otherwise, you contradict yourself.

You can't win this argument so you should quit while you are ahead.

3,450 posted on 01/07/2003 10:52:00 AM PST by exmarine
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