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To: exmarine
Your conclusions simply do not follow from your premises. I am worth much more than a rock to myself, while you aren't worth even that.

It's really very simple. My life and the lives of my loved ones have value to me and meaning for me. My place in a livable society, and the responsibility to maintain and improve it for them, yields the same valuable result for you and yours. It's an vast series of economic transactions of convenience for the "good" of each of us resulting in the "good life" for all of us.

No overarching morality needed, no beyond-the-grave coercion needed, no gods needed. Don't think so? Then let the oil, electricity, clean water, and food distribution networks break down and see what happens to our wonderful little civilization and all our loving, considerate, god-fearing, moral people.

3,203 posted on 01/06/2003 12:03:30 PM PST by balrog666
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To: balrog666
Your conclusions simply do not follow from your premises. I am worth much more than a rock to myself, while you aren't worth even that. It's really very simple. My life and the lives of my loved ones have value to me and meaning for me. My place in a livable society, and the responsibility to maintain and improve it for them, yields the same valuable result for you and yours. It's an vast series of economic transactions of convenience for the "good" of each of us resulting in the "good life" for all of us.

You simply can't see the folly of your position can you? Yes, your loved ones have value "to you," another meaningless rock, but they do not have intrinsic objective value. They can't possibly. They have meaning to you, but the meaning you feel for them is just a meaningless chemical process in your materialistic brain. Next time you grieve for a lost loved one, might I suggest that you remember that the grief you feel is a mere chemical process on your brain....see if that will provide you with any comfort in your time of loss (I mean that respectfully). Under materialism, nothing can have value, yet you assign it value anyway. That is precisely the hopeless dichotomy I was talking about.

3,209 posted on 01/06/2003 12:08:31 PM PST by exmarine
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To: balrog666
Then let the oil, electricity, clean water, and food distribution networks break down and see what happens to our wonderful little civilization and all our loving, considerate, god-fearing, moral people.

First, what people is done because people are basically evil. Who said our people were God-fearing? We live in a nation far removed from the God-fearing nation it was in the 1600s. That being said, it is first and foremost Christians who feed the starving, hurting people worldwide today. Who is the first in after an earthquake or hurricane - Christian organizations. See any muslims or hindus doing this worldwide? Not on your life. In fact, it was Christians who opened the first hospitals and orphanages in the West, and it was the Puritans who introduced universal education for children.

On the other hand, what has atheism contributed to the world - Stalin, Mao, hundreds of millions of dead in this century alone. Atheism produces only ugliness becuase it is empty and devoid of any values. Human beings have no worth if they come from rocks.

3,216 posted on 01/06/2003 12:16:49 PM PST by exmarine
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To: balrog666
Balrog666,

Don't you get it? Since you believe in the science of evolution, you must be an atheist/communist/materialist.

Life is nothing but an accident, therefore it must mean nothing to you, but since he is a christian and has morals and cannot in good faith believe in such things as evolution because it goes against his belief in creationism, he is a good moral person and believes in the sanctity of life, but you can't, because you believe in evolution.

You are such a terrible human being!! How dare you believe in evolution!! You immoral, athiestic communist materialist!!

Don't you know? GODDIDIT

That IS the answer.

You know that bacteria that has become immune to antibiotics? THat's NOT eveolution.

GODDIDIT

You know all those fossils in the ground? Those aren't real? The tree of evolution is NOT there, GODDIDIT to fool us mortal men and take them away from his grace.

Didn't you know that?

Ok, I am taking off my tinfoil beannie now.

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself!! ;)
3,219 posted on 01/06/2003 12:23:22 PM PST by Aric2000
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