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To: PatrickHenry
If I may, I'd like to offer some additional information for your discussion. The word water is also a symbol in Scripture (emphasis mine):

And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. - Revelation 17:15

A believer is born of the water and the Spirit:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things? - John 3:5-12

As with many other concepts - e.g. the ark, the temple and the garden of Eden - there is a physical manifestion as well as a spiritual manifestation. I suspect the "short" view of the above passage is that water refers only to physical baptism - or shorter still, physical birth from a womb. I'd suggest that it means both but moreover, it refers to the birth of new thinking, communion, e.g. "tongues."

It should also be noted that likewise, the prophecies of the Bible have contemporary fulfillment and future fulfillment.

1,702 posted on 12/31/2002 10:35:01 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Good News For The Day

‘And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God’ (Micah 6:8)

"The temptation to think better of ourselves than we ought is notoriously powerful. To some degree it is a reflex action against the aggression of others. In youth it can be wrought by fear of new experiences. We are anxious not to be seen to be afraid, so we train ourselves to misjudge our true condition. We eat up praise when we get some, and minimize criticism."

"Developing pride... forges habits---that conceal from us the truth of ourselves."

"Usually it takes a shock such as personal loss or misfortune to tear down the props we have built up around our false self. Grief and shame can be wonderfully liberating as they facilitate the emergence of a self that acknowledges the supremacy of God, and the need for constant dependence upon him."

"Nothing is more suited to the maintenance of this disposition than frequent meditation on Christ; his story; his teaching, life, death, and triumph. In Christ's presence the masks we shelter behind are taken away. We are left open to the gaze of God. We are seen for what we are. More, we are loved despite what we are. Higher, nobler possibilities are presented to us in the Son of God. Self renunciation and service are seen as the pathway to self realization at its highest level. We are fitted to 'walk humbly with our God'."

1,706 posted on 12/31/2002 10:46:53 AM PST by f.Christian
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To: Alamo-Girl
The word water is also a symbol in Scripture

I appreciate the insight. Yet that word does not seem to be used as a symbol in the Genesis verses regarding the 2nd and 3d days -- at least not below the firmament. Once we start down the road of saying "this word doesn't really mean what it seems to mean," we find ourselves interpreting Genesis as metaphor, and then the principle argument of the literalist school for special creation vanishes -- as I suppose it must, given the overwhelming evidence for evolution.

New Year's hugs!

1,709 posted on 12/31/2002 11:01:16 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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