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To: B. Rabbit
However, I find it hard to believe, as I am sure you do as well, that Western culture would never have discovered America (Columbus), that nobody would have theorized about gravity (Newton), etc. etc, without using God as an axiom for their pursuits.

But remember what my initial point was way, way back: It is perfectly fine to presume (God's existence) in science or anything else. It is rational. There is evidence for it. It's been done before and has worked quite well. Those examples -- the most important were actually Blackstone and Bacon, our laws and literally science itself is founded on the assumption of God's existence -- were examples of how presuming God's existence had worked well.

Now, would Western culture have made those discoveries without treating God's existence as axiomatic? Well Western culture -- especially during the age of discovery -- is a Christian culture. So, you'd have to ask if a pagan culture is capable of doing this. I don't think so, and there is no evidence for it. That concept, however, is the basis of much science fiction and can be argued indefinitely without coming to an absolute proof. All that can be said definitively is that a pagan culture never made these discoveries or developed the scientific method.

1,306 posted on 12/29/2002 10:13:22 AM PST by Tribune7
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To: Tribune7
Now, would Western culture have made those discoveries without treating God's existence as axiomatic? Well Western culture -- especially during the age of discovery -- is a Christian culture. So, you'd have to ask if a pagan culture is capable of doing this. I don't think so, and there is no evidence for it. That concept, however, is the basis of much science fiction and can be argued indefinitely without coming to an absolute proof. All that can be said definitively is that a pagan culture never made these discoveries or developed the scientific method.

Well now ... It's certainly true that our scientific advances have been accomplished in a society that is essentially Christian. Yet our method of thinking about such matters is inherently Greek. It was ol' Aristotle -- a product of pagan times -- who codified our laws of logic. It was the Greeks who gave us geometry. They actually computed the size of the earth. Eratosthenes.

But no one would claim that the "Zeus hypothesis" is essential for going geometry, or logic, or philosophy, or any of the other Greek achievements. If such a claim were made, you would be among the first to respond: "Come now, one can do geometry without even thinking about the Olympian gods!" Yes, that's true. And one can do physics without thinking about Genesis, or the Sermon on the Mount. I believe the fallacy you are deeply entangled with is known as post hoc, propter hoc (after this, [thus] because of this]. I quite agree that (at least nowadays) our society is congenial to scientific work. But I suspect we could do our science if we were pagan Greeks. Can't prove it.

1,310 posted on 12/29/2002 10:43:35 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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