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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; xzins
Hey, everbody... MESSIAH HAS COME AGAIN -- let's go back to the blood-sacrifice of bulls and goats!!

Come one, come all... get your TYPES AND SHADOWS right here, 'cause here we go again, baby!!

I wonder if I would be entirely wrong if I characterized PreMillennialism as...

PreMillennialism: the eschatology for Christians who HAVEN'T read the Book of Hebrews!!

In reverse order:

(1) Yes, you'd be dead wrong, but you'd be in-step with the cliche.

(2) How's this? (And though it breaks the pace of my intended humor, I can't bear not to make this disclaimer: it genuinely pains me to mock mockery of holy things with mockery; but then, Paul did it [Galatians 5:12]. Doesn't mean I have to like it, though.)

"Hey, everyone! The Messiah has come! Let's pretend we died with Him by playing splishy-splashy! Let's pretend about His death with some juice and crackers!"
< /mocking mockery >

The point being that, I guess if childish prattle is a good substitute for serious thought, you can make fun of anything, can't you?

But that's no great surprise. Dispensationalists figured out that... well, if we're talking theology, apologetics, soteriology, Reformed folks are the best brothers you can have.

But when it comes to Biblical prophecy, amillennialists just aren't up to the heavy lifting.

Dan

2,568 posted on 12/17/2002 6:47:38 AM PST by BibChr
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To: BibChr; OrthodoxPresbyterian
The Millennial Reign will be a different dispensation.

For an amillennial the Millennium for 1000 years on earth would be an assumption simply for the sake of understanding. If they would engage in that assumption for just a moment, they would see that the millennium would be a different dispensation.
2,569 posted on 12/17/2002 6:57:30 AM PST by xzins
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To: BibChr
So Dan how are you with returning to animal sacrifices for the forgivness of sin...and to please God?
2,610 posted on 12/17/2002 9:42:24 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: BibChr; RnMomof7; the_doc
How's this? (And though it breaks the pace of my intended humor, I can't bear not to make this disclaimer: it genuinely pains me to mock mockery of holy things with mockery; but then, Paul did it [Galatians 5:12]. Doesn't mean I have to like it, though.) "Hey, everyone! The Messiah has come! Let's pretend we died with Him by playing splishy-splashy! Let's pretend about His death with some juice and crackers!" < /mocking mockery > The point being that, I guess if childish prattle is a good substitute for serious thought, you can make fun of anything, can't you?

Well, sure (and no offense whatsoever taken)... if one begins with the presupposition that my sarcastic treatment of the PreMill doctrine of Restored Animal-Sacrifice was "childish prattle". Since I know that you do believe this (in good faith), I can hardly get upset at your rejoinder!! You are just answering me according to your presupposition that, in my dis-avowal of Restored Animal Sacrifice, I am in a position of eschatological error -- and you are measuring your response to me in accordance with the style and tone of my initial criticism, which is entirely fair.

But let's examine those presuppositions. You write, above, to RnMomof7 (and sister RN, I would humbly submit that Dan is no more an "Arminian" than was Charles Spurgeon. He's just mired a bit deeper, than was Spurgeon, in this particular Eschatological error! Let's be fair...):

See, the problem for PreMillenialism here, Dan, is not just that Ezekiel foretells "that Yahweh will be worshiped in a temple that has not yet been built on geography that has not yet been fully formed". The problem for PreMillenialism is that, the particular geography to be formed in fulfillment of Ezekiel 40-48 will NEVER pass away.

So, the PreMill trouble is, the Bible disallows the PreMill from locating the geography of Ezekiel 40-48 anywhere in a "Millennial Kingdom in Old Jerusalem of Judah on this Earth". The soles of King Jesus' feet cannot very well tread FOR-EVER on a physical geography which is necessarily NOT-FOR-EVER (the proposed "Millennial Kingdom", which will be utterly annihilated in a Flood of Fire - II Peter 3 - at the advent of the New Creation).

Ergo, Ezekiel 40-48 -- like Isiah 65 -- will certainly have its fulfillment in the New Heavens and the New Earth. And, like Isiah 65, we will undoubtedly see that the vision of the prophet is, to some extent, visionary -- i.e., at least partially metaphorical. I expect neither "physical death" (per Isiah 65) nor "blood sacrifice" (per Ezekiel 40-48) in the New Heavens and the New Earth, but I do expect the foretold Glories of Isaiah 65 and Ezekiel 40-48 to be wondrously fulfilled therein, beyond our capacity for imagination.

But Ezekiel 40-48 will not be fulfilled on this earth, because Ezekiel foretells of a wondrous Place where the soles of Jesus' feet will tread for-ever (per Ezekiel 43), and we know full well that This Present Earth is most certainly not-for-ever (per II Peter 3).

In short, the PreMillennialist can't get there (Ezekiel 40-48) from here (This Present Earth).

Best, OP

2,800 posted on 12/17/2002 8:47:32 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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