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To: RnMomof7
As I understand it, the tree is the people of God.

This has been debated ad nauseum before and I am not inclined to repeat. As an aside, I have a good treatment that unfortunately isn't published. It was John H. Walton's master's thesis at Westminster Seminary defending the distinction between Israel and the Church. (He did the chronological charts of the OT and NT published by Zondervan). It is quite good and was done at a school holding the opposite position.

John was an elder in the church I attended in Philly. A great guy.

One analogy, for fun. We have two children. One via natural birth and one via adoption. Both are Johnsons. Both are heir to the Johnson fortune (such as it is). We are one family. Yet these two are distinct and participate in the blessings of the Johnson family through different routes. Our family tree has a natural and an adopted branch. We love them both dearly.
2,485 posted on 12/15/2002 9:07:19 PM PST by drstevej
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To: drstevej
scripture??
2,486 posted on 12/15/2002 9:08:21 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: drstevej; RnMomof7; the_doc
One analogy, for fun. We have two children. One via natural birth and one via adoption. Both are Johnsons. Both are heir to the Johnson fortune (such as it is). We are one family. Yet these two are distinct and participate in the blessings of the Johnson family through different routes. Our family tree has a natural and an adopted branch. We love them both dearly.

But as you say, you are one family.

That is precisely what Paul says in Eph 2 and 3 and in Gal. 3,4 and in II Cor. 3 and in Acts 13.

Furthermore, Ezekiel 16 makes very clear that Israel was ADOPTED, not birthed by God, else he would commit incest by marrying her. "the Ammorite was thy father, and thy mother was a Hittite." God found her as an abandoned infant left to die.

Furthermore John 3 makes very clear that believers are born from above, by the Spirit.

Apparently Israel is adopted and the church is birthed.

In Phil 3 Paul lists all the advantages of Jewish birth and faith but then claims that he considers them manure for the sake of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ. Now why would Paul, Peter and other Jews abandon the superior blessings of belonging to OT Israel for the inferior blessings of belonging to the church?

According to your analogy Paul certainly was grossly wrong in Phil. 3 as well as the other passages listed above.

2,516 posted on 12/16/2002 6:59:02 AM PST by gdebrae
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