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To: the_doc; OrthodoxPresbyterian; Matchett-PI; RnMomof7; CCWoody; Jean Chauvin; gdebrae
Your analysis fails in the first paragraph. You separated v.24 from v.25. You can't do that. They are a Hebrew parallelism.
That means that the v.25 is talking about those who are spiritually dead becoming spiritually alive.

I don't read it that way. I don't think the passages warrant adding the word "spiritual" to "death" throughout these passages.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

These are the ones who already have life. I'll accept your term and call it "spiritual life". They will not come into condemnation, or judgement. Contrast with this:

Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Do you see the difference? They that hear his voice shall live but what's different about these as compared to those in verse 24?

The answer is that there is no requirement for belief as there is in verse 24 is there? They shall live, but it doesn't say anything about being given spiritual life. They will live physically, as the people Jesus resurrected were raised physically. Now it's true they probably believed and became spiritually alive after their resurrection.

Did Christ literally raise up the dead during his earthly ministry? Yes. Why would he literally raise up the dead? Because he was a nice guy? Because he could? The simple answer is so that people would believe it could be and would be done so in the future resurrections.

As I said this exactly parallels the events in Revelation verse 20.

These two are equivelent:

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

And these are equivelent:

Joh 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

They have to be talking about the same thing because it was Jesus Christ describing both things. It was Jesus describing it to John in John, and it was Jesus describing it to John in Revelation. They must be consistent.

2,416 posted on 12/15/2002 8:41:01 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC; Jean Chauvin; gdebrae; nobdysfool; Frumanchu; wai-ming; Matchett-PI; RnMomof7; ...
Let me show you why I said that John 5:24 and 5:25 are coupled in the form of a Hebrew parallelism.

John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you....
John 5:25: Verily, verily, I say unto you....

We have an obvious parallel in the language here, of course.

John 5:24: ....he that heareth my word....
John 5:25: ...the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God...

Notice that in the above comparison, we can’t help but notice that the Lord is presenting a hearing idea in both verses. (We shouldn’t fail to notice this fact even without the repeated language of “Verily, verily” introducing both verses. The repetition of the “Verily, verily” language merely makes it inescapably obvious that He is presenting a parallelism.)

John 5:24: ....he that heareth my word....
John 5:25: ...the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God...

All I want to show you in the above comparison is that the Lord switches from v.24’s idea of hearing to v.25’s idea of an era of hearing. (The language of “the hour is coming, and now is” amounts to a Hebrew idiom establishing the idea of an era which has already begun. We see the this "era language" in John 4.)

***

I would suggest at this point that v.24 and v.25 are talking about the same thing-- but changing from a mere idea of hearing to the idea of an era of hearing. (This “era idea” will be important later in the passage.) And as I will soon demonstrate, there is also a shift from literal language to more peculiarly spiritual language. (This fact will prove to be important later in the passage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

***

John 5:24: ....he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me...
John 5:25: ... when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God...

Notice again that a hearing idea is presented in both passages. But I now want you to notice how the words which I have underlined in v.24 are transformed when we move to v.25. (See below.)

The words of the Lord Jesus, when spiritually appreciated, are not merely human speech recorded for us in Scripture. They are the words of the One and Only GOD-MAN. According to v.24, saving faith involves realizing that the Lord speaks with the full and perfect authority of the God Who sent Him. But just in case someone might be inclined to say only “Yeah, I realize that this Jesus fellow is a prophet of God,” the Lord BLUNTLY declares in the very next verse that at He is GOD ALMIGHTY.

What I am saying is that the Son of God (see v.25) is God. (In Christian theology, we even refer to the Lord Jesus as God the Son.) And the idea that Jesus Christ is God the Son is actually presented in v.25’s reference to the Voice. Christ’s language in v.25 is actually an allusion to the Old Testament’s qol yhwh, the Voice of Yahweh. The Christ of God is telling us that when He speaks, His very words amount to the qol yhwh--i.e., the Voice of God the Son!

In other words, the Lord is not merely a prophet of God, but the Qol Yhwh Himself--and hence, the Prophet Who is God and the Word Who is God.

***

In case you didn’t notice, I am showing that the underlined phrases in v.24, when considered together, exactly correspond to the underlined idea in v.25. It may even be exegetically significant that the Lord uses the singular of logos in v.24; in any case, it is clear that Jewish readers would have been impressed with His reference in v.25 to the Voice.

In my next post, I will explain the Lord’s shift from literal language in v.24 to more peculiarly spiritual language in v.25. And I will prove that v.25 is definitely talking about conversion to Christ.

2,990 posted on 12/19/2002 10:39:46 AM PST by the_doc
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