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M-PI: "Following the example of what the one who understands love a lot better than you do did: "Does this offend you?" "... no one can come to me unless it has been granted to him by my Father." "From that time many of his disciples went back and walked with him no more." [John 6:61,65-66]" ftD: "Truth does divide, but Christ wasn't seeking to drive anyone away, He wanted them to stay and follow Him that is why He explaned what He was saying (Jn.6:63)" Really??? Why did he say this, then: "All that THE FATHER GIVES ME will come to me ..". And " ... of all HE HAS GIVEN ME I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.".

It was the Father's will that 'everyone who seeth the son and believe' would be save.

That means that everyone who saw the miracles could have believed since they were all being drawn by the Father, they resisted the drawing (Heb.10:39) by not believing

ftD: "It was the Father's will that everyone who saw what Christ did that day be saved And this is the will of him that sent me, that everyone which seeth the Son and believeth on him, may have everlasting life; I will raise him up at the last day" Yes. Pay close attention to those words, "...and believeth on him.." Notice:

That is right, and unlike the unbiblical view of the Calvinists, we believe that one chooses to believe or not based on his own volition.

"But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe [that I am the bread of life]" [John 6:36]

That is correct, they saw and they chose to reject the miracles they saw.

ftD: "Moreover, when you quote John 6 do not forget John 12:32, If I be lifted up from the earth I will draw all men to me" "All men" will not be saved. The sense of the verse is "all sorts of men", or "men from all nations, cultures and walks of life", or men of high and low estate", etc.

LOL!

Oh, yea, that is what it says does it?

But only the ones that are given to him by the Father will be saved. Reject that and reject Jesus' own words.

Again, it was the Fathers will that all who saw Christ and believed, thus, whoever saw Christ, could have believed, but they chose not to.

John did not have to put the words in 'every one which seeth the Son' if the unregenerate man could not be affected by whay he saw and believe.

Christ says the same thing of the cities that would have repented if they saw His miracles (Matt.11), now how does 'seeing' anything affect a 'spiritually dead corpse'?

ftD: "I never heard of a Christian having a ministry to drive people away from Christ!" Christ himself had that ministry.

Christ did not have a ministry to drive people away, they chose to reject Him (Matt.23:37), not he they.

Does the truth drive people away, yes it does, but the purpose isn't to drive people away, but to convince people of the errors.

Do you think he was trying to "draw people to him" when he said: "But you do not have his word abiding in you, because whom he sent, him [Jesus] you do not believe."

They resisted his miracles and preferred to believe in their own systems of thought (Mk.7:7) just as you and the rest of your cabel does.

So. Do you believe him, ftD? Only the ones that Jesus plainly tells you [above] that are given to him by the Father will be saved. Reject that and reject Jesus' own words.

The words I see of Christ are found in Jn.3:16, that He died for all the world and whosoever believeth will be saved.

I see also 1Tim.2:4, 4:10, Heb.2:9, Ezek.33:11, 1Jn.2:2, 2Pet.3:9, etc

I also see the commandment in Jude,

And of some have compassion, making a difference, and other save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh (Jude 22-23)

ftD: "Besides if they are spiritually dead, why do they need to be driven away, they are not even being drawn!" The spiritually dead don't need to be driven away, they will go of their own accord when they are confronted with the Truth. The Truth repels those whom the Father hasn't given to Jesus. [John 6: 65-66]

Well, Doc says his ministry is to drive people away!

So, why do you need a ministry to drive people away who cannot believe in the first place ( like Satan blinding them even though they can't see in the first place 2Cor.4:4).

How does God draw anyone before regeneration, do you come to life in stages?

Ye are all forgers of lies!