Oral-sex issue hits middle schools (posted 6/10/2002)

Lexington Herald Leader ^ | Jun. 09, 2002 | Valarie Honeycutt Spears

[FreeTally]

Could you give us an age minimum for transmission of STDs? I was just wondering how old these oldtimers have to be.

What I am saying is that someone had to contract the STD first, right? Unless I am mistaken, they don't just "happen". Someone had to have sex with an infected person. Regardless of any statistics out there, I am quite certain that a vast majority of 13 or 14 year olds have not had sexual intercourse, and the ones that have, probably had one partner. So where did the STDs come from? Someone in the school, community or whatever must have been having sex with persons 18, 19, 20 or so, who probably are more "sexually active", thus may have contracted an STD.

I merely try to point out here that the "Sex act" did not cause the increase in STDs. A bunch of people must be having sex with the same person who contracted an STD from an older person(my guess would be a younger female who got one from an older male). Then, these people get other partners. Thats how it spreads. The girls didn't get the STD because they were perfroming oral sex on a boy, they got it because they were perfroming oral sex on a boy who obviously had had sex before, with an infected person.

[laredo44]

Do you really think these people listen to what others tell them when they have their lives so figured out?

Honestly? I don't think any of us have it figured out completely. I believe that the marriage, the relationship after the committment is much more important than things that happened prior. As someone in the 32nd year of a strong, happy marriage, I can tell you I didn't arrive at the alter as someone who "saved" myself. I don't know whether things would have been better or worse had I. I just know happiness is not a one size fits all proposition. But let's see if we can agree on some things.

1. The only proper adult response to these middle school children is abstinence. They are simply not mature enough to comprehend anything else.
2. Bill Clinton bears some responsibility for this, but he'll never admit that.
3. The Democratic Party in their attempt to retain power bears some responsibility. They too will never admit as much. (Do you find it ironic that Bill's defense against perjury is that it wasn't sex and the Democrat's defense of Bill was that it was only sex?)

[jlogajan]

"And just who is doing the "apportioning"?"

people apportion liberty unto themselves.

You smuggle a lot of socialistic baggage in that.

I mean, if you just mean individuals decided their own personal level of freedom, well, that would be anarchy.

So what you are really meaning, I suspect, is that all other people determine what level of freedom you have.

So we can list the two categories:
1.) Individual self-determines is liberty
2.) Other people determine individual's liberty

Merely saying that "the people determine their own liberty" does not really narrow what you mean. It includes everything from dictatorships, socialistic states, to individual anarchy.

You need to be more precise with your language and with your justifications. Broad definitions like that leave all sorts of room for concept smuggling.

[Don Myers]

The problem with commitment later in life after living a hedonistic life style is the attitude and practices of the people involved. After years of sexual indulgence, no commitment, and probably corruption of the body by STDs, it is very hard for people to turn into the faithful and committed partner in a loving relationship. And looking at the foundation of such a person, it is like trying to literally build a house upon shifting sand.

[Don Myers]

"Regardless of any statistics out there, I am quite certain that a vast majority of 13 or 14 year olds have not had sexual intercourse, and the ones that have, probably had one partner. So where did the STDs come from? "

Yes, there has to be a point of origin for the STDs. But the STDs are also spread by oral sex, not just intercourse. That is what we are talking about here, right?

"The girls didn't get the STD because they were perfroming oral sex on a boy, they got it because they were perfroming oral sex on a boy who obviously had had sex before, with an infected person."

I think that you are splitting hairs here. STDs are common among the sexually promiscuous. And, there is no way of telling who has what.

STDs are very common in our society among the sexually promiscuous of all age groups. I understand that something like 47 percent of black dudes over the age of 11 have STDs. That is something that I picked up from another thread a month or so ago. Notice the age given in the stat.

[yendu bwam]

My parents are celebrating their 60th this December.

Wow. That's a rare one. All good wishes to them!

[biblewonk]

I understand that something like 47 percent of black dudes over the age of 11 have STDs.

That sounds like a line some dad told his white daughter.

[yendu bwam]

With the AIDS crisis, it's been little noticed that there's a huge increase in VD of all sorts (much of it untreatable) in the past 20 years - it's really an epidemic. A lot of women are becoming sterile from it, and don't even know it. Many others will come down with cervical cancer later in their lives.

[yendu bwam]

After years of sexual indulgence, no commitment, and probably corruption of the body by STDs, it is very hard for people to turn into the faithful and committed partner in a loving relationship. And looking at the foundation of such a person, it is like trying to literally build a house upon shifting sand.

I'm afraid that's been, on average, my observation in life. If a true and loving and committed-for-life marriage is important to you (for me, it was something I always knew I wanted, badly), then saving that intimacy for your life partner is something valuable and loving and lasting.

[justshutupandtakeit]

In your case I should have said "vibrating with MINDLESS hatred."

[FreeTally]

Yes, there has to be a point of origin for the STDs. But the STDs are also spread by oral sex, not just intercourse. That is what we are talking about here, right?

Somebody originally got it from (most likely)sexual intercourse with an older person, otherwise, It would be difficult to explain how the boys transmitted it to the girls. One thing the story doesn't go into is that it is not common or very likely that a boy got an STD from a girl who was going down on him. Its very rare that STDs are transmitted simply through saliva.

STDs are very common in our society among the sexually promiscuous of all age groups.

Yes, but assuming that most young people's first sexual encounter is with someone their age or very close, I guarantee that the "point of origin" is those youngsters who have sex with a young adult - someone in their late teens or early twenties. You dont get an STD epidemic from a bunch of 13 or 14 year old who are just having sex with each other.

I understand that something like 47 percent of black dudes over the age of 11 have STDs.

I have to really doubt that statistic. Just simply looking at the number, you would have to have certain areas where every black over eleven has an STD. I don't quite buy that. And there is no way that every other 12 year-old black kid, on a national scale, has an STD.

[yendu bwam]

"Men of intemperate minds cannot be free, their passions form their fetters".

I think what MadIvan is saying is that when you give in to all your passions and temptations, you end up restraining your own freedom. People who cannot control their eating end up corpulent and lose the freedom associated with good health and mobility. People who cannot control their sexual passions (Bill Clinton, as an example), end up hurting those around them (Monica Lewinsky, his wife, and most especially his daughter) and themselves (certainly Clinton paid a heavy price for his indiscretions). People who cannot control their anger end up alienating others until they are shunned. And so on. One of the messages of Christianity, though little recognized, is that resisting sinful acts brings you untold freedom. Christ himself often spoke of this. The man who sells himself to the devil gets what he wants today, but loses his soul and the liberation and freedom from evil that God promises after death. What's so sad in today's society is that so many have lost sight of this simple but profound truth. The homosexual men who spend their time engaging in promiscuous anal sex with anonymous partners, the women who provide sex to every man who comes their way (but finding no commitment), the people who end up in accidents because of constant road rage, the drug-addicted and the alcohol-addicted - all have sacrificed freedom and well-being for their passions and temptations. Truly those passions have become unseen fetters. MadIvan is right.

[FreeTally]

With the AIDS crisis, it's been little noticed that there's a huge increase in VD of all sorts (much of it untreatable) in the past 20 years - it's really an epidemic

Yes, the incidence of "VD" is probably a crisis, if the numbers are correct. AIDS never has been a "crisis" or an "epidemic". Its a big lie perpetuated by the queer community. If the truth would have been told in the mid-1980's, I sincerely believe the vast majority of the American public would have at least shunned queers, if not have called for their quaranteen.

[FreeTally]

That sounds like a line some dad told his white daughter.

Yup! Not to speak negativey of DM(I don't think he actually said he believed it, just that someone posted it), but too many people buy into any type of statistics without even thinking about them. This "47%" figure isn't even close to being believable.

[jlogajan]

I think what MadIvan is saying is that when you give in to all your passions and temptations, you end up restraining your own freedom.

You mean to say that some of our desires are in conflict with others? Who could deny that? It is impossible to live without having conflicting needs -- that's why we have to prioritize.

The difference between an individualist and a socialist is that the individualist prioritizes his own conflicting needs whereas the socialist insists on prioritizing everyone elses conflicting needs.

[yendu bwam]

Well, I agree that the primary cause of the AIDs crisis in this country has been unrestrained homosexual anal promiscuous intercourse with mulitple partners, coupled with a stupid refusal to require the notification of partners. Still, homosexuals are people, and it is tragic that their distorted and perverse proclivities bring them such a disease. But I agree, the other venereal diseases constitute a more widespread epidemic.

[biblewonk]

That sounds like a line some dad told his white daughter.

Yup! Not to speak negativey of DM(I don't think he actually said he believed it, just that someone posted it), but too many people buy into any type of statistics without even thinking about them. This "47%" figure isn't even close to being believable.

My dad told me that the first time I screw a girl she'll probably get pregnant and then all of my college hopes will be gone. He also said that if I ever try any drug even once I'll instantly be addicted for life or until I OD. There is actually some value to these scare tactics. I might have to use the STD one on my daughter :-)

[yendu bwam]

No, you still don't get it. When you lose self-restraint, and flee from moderation in any area, you end up losing some of your freedom. Those who are more self-restrained in life usually end up with greater freedom (and greater happiness).

[jlogajan]

There is actually some value to these scare tactics.

There is until it is disbelieved, then it becomes counter-productive because your credibility on all other issues is squandered.

[yendu bwam]

I think just telling the truth is scary enough for many. Two girls just got pregnant in seventh grade in our middle school (high scale suburban New Jersey). I think that made an impression on my sons.