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To: DiogenesLamp; JohnBovenmyer
I will point out three things about the Wong Kim Ark decision.

It does not use the words "Natural born" in the ruling. Ink and paper were not so dear that they could not have added the words if they wanted to. Like the authors of the 14th amendment, those words were INTENTIONALLY omitted.

That's been covered in another post. The core reasoning of a case is binding precedent just as much as the final statement is. This is basic law, which is routinely ignored by DiogenesLamp whenever it suits him.

Ah, but in Minor v. Happersett, he picks out one or two sentences that don't even have to do with the case at hand, and argue that they "prove" his claim.

Completely hypocritical, and a mangling of the law.

2. It makes no mention whatsoever of the War of 1812, the focus of which was very much about the difference between an American citizen and a British Subject. It has been alleged that they intentionally omitted it because it did not support the conclusion to which they had already made up their mind.

So the conclusion is supposedly somehow invalid because the Supreme Court doesn't talk about the War of 1812?

Court cases cite legal precedent. They don't generally talk about such things as wars.

3. The Wong court is the exact same court that ruled "separate but equal" in the Plessy v Ferguson decision a year earlier. This was one of the most infamous decisions in Supreme Court History, and the Judgement of the court was this: Not all "citizens" are created equal. Some are more equal than others.

Note what we don't have here: Any analysis of the Court's reasoning in Wong. The argument is basically, "They got it wrong with Plessy, so they must've gotten it wrong with Wong as well."

Oh. And this is from the exact same guy who has regularly tried to make his case by quoting one of the Justices in the most infamous decision in American history - the infamous Dred Scott case that ruled that Dred Scott was was "property" and not a "person," and that black people were not and could never become US citizens.

493 posted on 07/21/2013 7:49:27 PM PDT by Jeff Winston
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To: Jeff Winston
That's been covered in another post. The core reasoning of a case is binding precedent just as much as the final statement is. This is basic law, which is routinely ignored by DiogenesLamp whenever it suits him.

Yeah, it's basic law that took 14 English Judges nearly six years to figure out, and over 12 months for the "Wong" court to decipher, and that only after it had made the rounds through the other courts who couldn't seem to decipher it either.

Apparently that "basic" stuff is really complicated.

Ah, but in Minor v. Happersett, he picks out one or two sentences that don't even have to do with the case at hand, and argue that they "prove" his claim.

Yeah, like that Sentence in which Justice Waite explicitly states that the 14th amendment does not define "natural born citizen" and the meaning has to be obtained elsewhere.

Yeah, it's a crazy thought that five years after the 14th amendment, a judge might not notice it or something. What was the case about? THE 14TH AMENDMENT!

This is why it is POINTLESS to reason with you. You simply IGNORE anything you don't like.

So the conclusion is supposedly somehow invalid because the Supreme Court doesn't talk about the War of 1812?

I'm not even saying the Wong decision is wrong, it depends on the scope of interpretation. If it is construed to be an explicit interpretation of the 14th amendment it is arguably correct. If it is construed as being the equivalent of the 1787 "natural citizen" it is absolutely wrong.

Once again, the Waite court asserted that the 14th amendment doesn't define "natural born citizen." As for the war of 1812, you're d@mn right it should have been included in the court's research and commentary. It explicitly dealt with the issue of citizenship by people who KNEW THE TRUTH. People such as Bushrod Washington and Chief Justice John Marshall who EXPLICITLY noted that the best definition of citizenship was Vattel's definition.

Once again, I point out that My pair of Supreme Court Justices beat your English trained Lawyer. (So does the entire Supreme court of Pennsylvania.)

Note what we don't have here: Any analysis of the Court's reasoning in Wong.

No, we have evidence of extremely BAD reasoning on the part of the court which decided Wong. An impeachment of their competence is what we have.

The argument is basically, "They got it wrong with Plessy, so they must've gotten it wrong with Wong as well."

That is one argument. Another way of looking at it is that they decided there were distinctly different classes of citizens in Plessy, and they followed the exact same philosophy in Wong.

Wong was a "citizen" but not a "CITIZEN." Get it?

The same court that drew distinctions between citizens in Plessy, can be understood to have drawn distinctions in Wong by not including the words "natural born."

Wong was one of those "separate but equal" citizens, like Homer Plessy, according to the Wong court.

Oh. And this is from the exact same guy who has regularly tried to make his case by quoting one of the Justices in the most infamous decision in American history - the infamous Dred Scott case that ruled that Dred Scott was was "property" and not a "person," and that black people were not and could never become US citizens.

I'm the same guy who points out the UGLY truth whether you like it or not. The Tanney decision stood until overturned by the 14th amendment, and it is sh*theads like you who refuse to acknowledge truths you don't like. Beyond pointing out the case, I have no recollection of ever citing Tanney by quote. I'm not absolutely certain, but i'm pretty sure this is another Jeff Lie for which you need your ass beaten.

Remember how I asked you to explain the 14th amendment and you come back with that horsesh*t about Needing to pass another law which says the same thing as the existing law?

No @$$hole, the Civil rights act of 1866 and the 14th amendment were created for the EXPLICIT purpose of overturning the Dred Scott decision.

Furthermore, it's your impugning of my motives that make me want to beat the ever loving dog sh*t out of your lying deceitful @ss.

586 posted on 07/22/2013 6:57:34 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: JohnBovenmyer

Forgot to cc you my response to Jeff. See post above.


587 posted on 07/22/2013 6:58:43 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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