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To: 0.E.O; central_va
>> There was a time when none denied it.
>
> And when was that exactly?

If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation... to a continuance in union... I have no hesitation in saying, ‘let us separate.’
Thomas Jefferson, letter to W. Crawford, June 20, 1816.

52 posted on 04/15/2013 4:16:12 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark
“If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation... to a continuance in union... I have no hesitation in saying, ‘let us separate.’”

"My opinion is, that a reservation of a right to withdraw...is a conditional ratification; that it does not make New York a member of the Union, and consequently that she could not be received on that plan. Compacts must be reciprocal - this principle would not in such a case be preserved. The Constitution requires an adoption in toto and forever. It has been so adopted by the other States. An adoption for a limited time would be as defective as an adoption of some articles only. In short, any condition whatever must vitiate the ratification...The idea of reserving a right to withdraw was started in Richmond, and considered as a conditional ratification which was itself abandoned as worse than a rejection." - James Madison, 1788

54 posted on 04/15/2013 5:36:01 PM PDT by 0.E.O
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To: OneWingedShark; 0.E.O

We have strayed so far from the original intent of the republic’s founding that even the slightest memory of it is lost on today’s population. There isn’t even a starting place to begin to realize that we are 180 degrees opposite of the original intent with regards to states rights, the 10th and what secession means. 0.E.O is a prime example. The republic is dead in him.


56 posted on 04/16/2013 3:35:21 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: OneWingedShark
“If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation... to a continuance in union... I have no hesitation in saying, ‘let us separate.’” Thomas Jefferson, letter to W. Crawford, June 20, 1816.

And while we're at it, do you mind if we take a look at that quote of Jefferson's in context?

"The alternatives between which we are to choose [are fairly stated]: 1, licentious commerce and gambling speculations for a few, with eternal war for the many; or, 2, restricted commerce, peace and steady occupations for all. If any State in the Union will declare that it prefers separation with the first alternative to a continuance in union without it, I have no hesitation in saying 'let us separate.' I would rather the States should withdraw which are for unlimited commerce and war, and confederate with those alone which are for peace and agriculture. I know that every nation in Europe would join in sincere amity with the latter and hold the former at arm's length by jealousies, prohibitions, restrictions, vexations and war."

When you look at it that way two things become clear. The first is that Jefferson is almost talking about escaping from those states that prefer war, literally by getting rid of them. And second, Jefferson is making it abundantly clear that the separation would be a mutual decision. In 1860 the South walked out without discussion and in a manner deliberately designed to create anger and resentment behind, and likely lead to war.

62 posted on 04/16/2013 4:02:25 AM PDT by 0.E.O
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