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To: curiosity; Flamenco Lady; conservativegrandma
"It was in these settings that I was taught that a “natural born citizen” was a child born in the U.S. to two parents who were U.S. Citizens.

Sorry, there's no way that is true. Either you have a faulty memory, or you ladies are lying. I don't know which.

No one, repeat, no one, prior to the Fall of 2008, claimed that natural born status required two citizen parents. Period.

Why did no know bring up the two-citizen parent requirement when Spiro Agnew was a vice presidential candidate? Or better yet, Michael Dukakis? Both men had at least one non-citizen parent.

Or better yet, how come not a single person raised the issue until AFTER Obama was elected? It was both well-known that he was running AND that his father wasn't a citizen. And yet, no one thought that might be a problem until after he was elected.

Sorry, ladies. Your story just doesn't pass the smell test.

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"No one, repeat, no one, prior to the Fall of 2008, claimed that natural born status required two citizen parents. Period.

Really?

I see your still stuck on the big lie there curiosity. [1][2]. You've clearly got a severe case of revisionisthistory-itis

The two citizen parent argument was discussed in the public arena in the Summer of 2008 (that's prior to the Fall) regarding Barry. Further, the two citizen parent argument was discussed in the public arena in the Spring of 2008 with regards to McCain.

All one has to due, is Google: two citizen parents "natural born citizen" between the dates of Jan 1, 2008–Aug 24, 2008 [the day prior to the DNC nomination] gives (according to Google) "About 21,900 results" with many familiar sites listed. [Edit: Now the results are 21,500]

http://www.google.com/search?q=two+citizen+parents+%22natural+born+citizen%22&hl=en&prmd=ivns&sa=X&ei=39xBTZDDOoq4sAOv5Ki5Cg&ved=0CAwQpwUoBg&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F2008%2Ccd_max%3A8%2F24%2F2008&tbm=

In fact, add "obama" and remove "mccain" from the search results and you'll see people were discussing this issue prior to June 2008, which is when it appears the discussions involving Barry, two citizen parents and "Natural Born Citizen" really took off.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F2008%2Ccd_max%3A5%2F31%2F2008&q=-mccain+obama+two+citizen+parents+%22natural+born+citizen%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

Using "-mccain obama two citizen parents "natural born citizen"" and "Jan 1, 2008–May 31, 2008" gives 761 results. [Edit: now gives 740 results]

FURTHERMORE...the two citizen parent definition was reiterated by many in government over the years. For example:

John Bingham, "father" of the 14th Amendment, the abolitionist congressman from Ohio who prosecuted Lincoln's assassins, REAFFIRMED the definition known to the framers by reiterating Vattel's definition...not once, but TWICE during Congressional discussions of Citizenship pertaining to the upcoming 14th Amendment!

Vattel's definition for "natural born citizen" was read into the Congressional Record during the Civil War.

"All from other lands, who by the terms of [congressional] laws and a compliance with their provisions become naturalized, are adopted citizens of the United States; all other persons born within the Republic, of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty, are natural born citizens. Gentleman can find no exception to this statement touching natural-born citizens except what is said in the Constitution relating to Indians." (Cong. Globe, 37th, 2nd Sess., 1639 (1862)).

 

Vattel's definition for "natural born citizen" was read into the Congressional Record after the Civil War.

every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866))"

No Congressman offered up a counter argument, EITHER TIME, to Congressman Bingham's reiterating the two citizen parent definition for Natural Born Citizen. They ALL knew what it meant.

The same definition was referenced in the dicta of many early SCOTUS cases as well...some examples:

"THE VENUS, 12 U.S. (8 Cranch) 253, 289 (1814) (A case on citizenship and domicile. Marshall, C.J. concurring) (cites Vattel six (6) times by name, and "law of nations" ten (10) times.)
"Vattel, who, though not very full to this point, is more explicit and more satisfactory on it than any other whose work has fallen into my hands, says
"The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens. Society not being able to subsist and to perpetuate itself but by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.""

SHANKS V. DUPONT, 28 U.S. 242, 245 (1830) (same definition without citing Vattel)
MINOR V. HAPPERSETT, 88 U.S.162,167-168 ( 1875) (same definition without citing Vattel)
EX PARTE REYNOLDS, 1879, 5 Dill., 394, 402 (same definition and cites Vattel)
UNITED STATES V WARD, 42 F.320 (C.C.S.D. Cal. 1890) (same definition and cites Vattel.)"
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17519578/Kerchner-v-Obama-Congress-DOC-34-Plaintiffs-Brief-Opposing-Defendants-Motion-to-Dismiss


332 posted on 01/27/2011 1:17:28 PM PST by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: rxsid
Getting a bunch of Google hits after entering two citizen parents and "natural born citizen" doesn't mean the article is making the argument that two citizen parents for natural born citizenship. All it means is the article contains the search words you entered.

As to your other quotes, they're very interesting, but not a single one states that two citizen parents are required for natural born citizenship if the child is born in the USA.

415 posted on 01/27/2011 4:24:04 PM PST by curiosity
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