When there's a long form on file, it's always just an abbreviated version of the long form.
Those born in foreign countries could obtain a short form Hawaiian Birth certificate.
Not in 1961. The law you are referring to wasn't passed until 1982.
While a birth was announced in the Hawaiian newspaper, any grandparent or relative could have called the newspaper and requested this announcement just like countless other grandparents did when their grandchildren were born out of state, so others in their town would know they had become grandparents.
Incorrect. The Hawaii papers affirmed that they only published birth announcements based on information they received directly from the Health Department (called Health Bureau in those days).
This was quite popular to do in the 1950’s and 1960’s and most newspapers would do it for free.
Not the Hawaii papers that announced Bambi's birth.
Also there are at least two different short form birth certificates that have been posted, one on Obama’s website and the other on the daily KOS,
Nope. It was the same document.
and both have been found by forensic experts to be forged documents.M
Wrong again.
That said, I grew up in the 1960’s and I was taught about the “natural born citizen clause” at three different schools I attended. I was taught that in order two be a “natural born citizen” you had to be born in the United States and have two parents that were citizens at the time of your birth.
You either have a bad memory or you are lying. From the time of the Kim Wong Ark decision until Nov. of 2008, no one used that definition in the United States.
With regard to your comments I understand that if there is a long form birth certificate, then a short form BC is just an abreviated form of that,however, it is my understanding that a short form birth certificate can be issued in Hawaii for individuals that do not have a long form birth certificate and those individuals may or may not have actually been born in Hawaii. His sister’s short form Hawaiian birth certificate was also posted online and she was born in Indonesia.
I don’t have time to go research the Hawaiian laws again now, but I did read them on their own website before Obama was elected and concluded to my own satisfaction that he could have been born elsewhere and still have been able to obtain a short form certificate. If you have time to post links to the laws I would be happy to go review it again.
There are at least two different copies of a short form Hawaiian birth certificate that I have seen online. I could be mistaken that the one on his website and the daily Kos were different. It could have been another site that showed the different one, however, both copies were purported to be real during the run up to the election. Perhaps another freeper has links to the two different ones.
With regard to the newspaper, I would question how anyone at the newspaper would be able to attest that the paper only posted announcements from the Health Bureau information since that was some 50 years ago. Even in banking it would be difficult to attest to a policy the bank had 50 years ago, let alone a newspaper. It was common practice for grandparents to request birth announcements.
No expert to the best of my knowledge has ever seen the original for testing purposes, however, there are some experts who have stated that the online copies appear to be forgeries. Until the original long form birth certificate has been examined by several different experts and found to be authentic I am withoulding an opinion as to where Obama was born.
I will look up the court case you mentioned, when I have more time. I have looked through legal decisions on this mater quite extensively, however, and to date I have not found one case that specifically provides a definition for the term “natural born citizen”.
With regard to my memory and my honesty they are both in tact. I went to school with an individual who had a father that was a U.S. citizen born in the USA, and a mother that was foreign born and was not a citizen at the time of the birth. The mother became a U.S. Citizen before the second child was born. This family became the example used in my classes year after year to explain to the students what the term “natural born citizen” meant. We were taught that the first child was inelligible to be president when they grew up because only one parent was a citizen at the time of their birth. The second child would be eligible because both parents were citizens at the time of the second child’s birth. I was among the top students in my classes and I am still friends with the family that was used as the example, so don’t try telling me that no one used that definition in the 1960’s or that I have a bad memory about this.
Perhaps we can agree to disagree at this point in time as you obviously have opinions that are just as strong as mine.
There are many people even today who beleive this is the only interpretation of the “natural born citizen clause”. Quite frankly I beleive it is the only interpretation which makes any sense since our founding fathers would clearly not have allowed for anyone who might also be a British subject to become president. You are, however, entitled to your opinion until such time as the supreme court provides us with a less ambiguous definition.