Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

To: Cheburashka; trumandogz
Those were the secessionists’ own words. They justify why they passed the Ordinance. They were passed at the same time. Not including them is sort of like throwing away all the paragraphs of the Declaration of Independence except for the last one. Who in their right mind would do that? And what is it that Confederate sympathizers are trying to hide when they engage in such editing? What are they ashamed of? I read the whole thing and I know.

I merely pointed out you seem to be confusing the two documents. I don't see anyone trying to hide anything with editing.

They seceded to defend the states that seceded over slavery, so they they seceded to defend slavery as well. No first wave of secession, no second wave of secession.

Incorrect. They seceded due to Lincoln's call for troops. Please read Arkansas Declaration of Secession. They seceded b/c there is no Constitutional power given to any branch of government to use force in coercing another soveriegn state to remain in the Union. So, yes, there was a second wave. It really is all part of history.

Alexander Hamilton @ ratification debate in New York state in 1788. Emphasis and underline mine.

"It has been observed, to coerce the states is one of the maddest projects that was ever devised. A failure of compliance will never be confined to a single state. This being the case, can we suppose it wise to hazard a civil war?"

"Suppose Massachusetts, or any large state, should refuse, and Congress should attempt to compel them, would they not have influence to procure assistance, especially from those states which are in the same situation as themselves? What picture does this idea present to our view? A complying state at war with a non-complying state; Congress marching the troops of one state into the bosom of another; this state collecting auxiliaries, and forming, perhaps, a majority against the federal head."

"Here is a nation at war with itself. Can any reasonable man be well disposed towards a government which makes war and carnage the only means of supporting itself -- a government that can exist only by the sword? Every such war must involve the innocent with the guilty. This single consideration should be sufficient to dispose every peaceable citizen against such a government. But can we believe that one state will ever suffer itself to be used as an instrument of coercion? The thing is a dream; it is impossible."

Madison on use of force against a soveriegn state (emphasis mine):

“Mr. MADISON, observed that the more he reflected on the use of force [by the federal govt against the States], the more he doubted the practicability, the justice and the efficacy of it when applied to people collectively and not individually. — A union of the States containing such an ingredient seemed to provide for its own destruction. The use of force agst. a State, would look more like a declaration of war, than an infliction of punishment, and would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all previous compacts by which it might be bound. He hoped that such a system would be framed as might render this recourse unnecessary, and moved that the clause be postponed. This motion was agreed to nem. con.” Link: http://www.constitution.org/dfc/dfc_0531.htm

You and I know both know the institution of slavery is intrinsically evil. So the northern states could not degrade themselves by declining to support it by returning escaped slaves. The southern states degraded themselves by demanding the return.

I don't see anyone defending slavery. By not following the Constitution the North degraded themselves. Not to mention, their part in slavery. Nor the money flowing North from slave labor. Nor the cotton flowing North from slave labor. Oh, and have you figured out which state (at least one) in the North still had slaves prior to the war? Have you studied the "Black Codes" of the Northern states? Ever wondered why they didn't just buy the slaves and set them up in neighborhoods in the Northern states? Might have kept them from being degraded by those awful Southern slavers if they had just bought the poor souls and moved 'em to the North. Oh, that's right, the Northern states didn't want blacks there. Ever wonder why the Northern states didn't move the freed slaves up North after the war?

I think someone in an earlier post tried to tell you if you're looking for Little Bo Peep, don't look back. Our history isn't pretty. The whole meme that the South was bad, and the North was good is a fairy tale. It is one that should never have been propogated. True American history is available if you choose to look at it all.

87 posted on 12/20/2010 11:40:34 PM PST by southernsunshine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies ]


To: southernsunshine
I merely pointed out you seem to be confusing the two documents. I don't see anyone trying to hide anything with editing.

It was one document, like the Declaration of Independence. Whey edit it? You still haven't answered the question. You won't answer the question.


I don't see anyone defending slavery.

Secession was undertaken to defend slavery. The Confederacy was a defense of slavery. Its whole purpose was to defend slavery. Secession and the Confederacy had no other purpose. No slavery = no secession = no Confederacy.


...if you're looking for Little Bo Peep, don't look back. Our history isn't pretty...

I agree that history isn't pretty. Yet who is looking back, who is having a ball to commemorate the anniversary of secession, i.e. to commemorate slavery? If you want a curtain drawn over the past then you'd better draw it over the past. Some people want the right to remember the past they want to remember, but to forbid the right to remember the past to others. How convenient.
91 posted on 12/21/2010 2:32:59 AM PST by Cheburashka (Democratic Underground - the Hogwarts of Stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson