And it's pretty obvious God has always had this thing about learning lessons, so going through an intense learning phase doesn't mean God isn't watching out for us.
But learning phases come to an end.
Posted on 10/03/2010 12:21:07 PM PDT by Ronbo1948
Based on my sightings of all the Yankee refugees fleeing south, it has already happened
But we owe China a lot of money, and so long as there's anyway the United States can repay, they'll want to keep the government intact.
So I guess the answer is home-grown morons.
The country wouldn't breakup into two parts with all the liberals in one half and all the conservatives in the other. Right now many Southerners vote against the North and many Northerners against the South.
That's gone if the country goes. There would be political realignments in whatever new countries develop.
I doubt you'd find labor unions running things in an independent New England. They certainly don't dominate in politics now, and there's little reason why they would if circumstances changed.
On the other hand, you might find labor unions gaining in power in an independent South. And you'd have one big battle between Southern working people and libertarian/business enthusiasts over immigration. When that hits you'll see just how bitter divides within the South will be.
We would be better off splitting the country up. The Founders of course designed federalism so that would not be necessary but the liberals are intent upon nationalizing everything so that pretty much makes it impossible to make the system work as intended. They can’t resist imposing their mandates on people who do not want them and the only solution is therefore independence.
If the United States breaks up the winners and losers among the successor countries will be chosen in Beijing. If the Chinese pick Texas as a junior partner on the North American continent, Texas will do well - if not, not.
And it's pretty obvious God has always had this thing about learning lessons, so going through an intense learning phase doesn't mean God isn't watching out for us.
But learning phases come to an end.
Not only would the United States fracture but so would many states. Eastern Washington and Eastern Oregon are very conservative. Up to 75% so. They would never willingly join an ultra liberal new socialist west coast nation. They would more likely join with Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Nevada minus Las Vegas, Utah, western Colorado and Arizona in a new republic.
I hereby pledge the Great State of Ohio to the new Confederacy of America!
The worst thing possible for our nation - especially at this point in time - would be to break up. If we do we will be overrun and if you think that things look bleak now...
I think there is a major flaw in the secession idea.
In 1860 the country was divided regionally. With the significant exception of the border states, people in each region were, initially at least, 85% to 95% supportive of “their side.” This includes the South, where blacks didn’t qualify as “people” in a political sense, even where they were a majority.
Today the situation is completely different. I doubt any state in the country has much more than a 2/3 majority for either side. We’re divided ideologically, not regionally.
If a southern state successfully seceded, it would have a minimum 1/3 minority that was utterly opposed. How do you run a society on that basis? Do you expel people for having the “wrong” political opinions? Do you prosecute the “treason” of thinking differently? Do you conduct ethnic and/or ideological cleansing?
If you do, what happens to the notion of the American ideal of the government serving the people? Sounds like you’d be forced into a political position where you’d have to define some people out of “the people.” And if you do that, you aren’t American anymore.
IMO.
cva has no problem with being un-American. The consequences don't matter to him as long as he gets what he thinks he wants. The rest of us be damned.
People that believe this sh*t are idiots. They are most certainly neither patriots, conservatives nor Americans.
You have basically described the difference between the American Civil War (a war of secession) and the British Civil War of the early 17th century (a true civil war), in which the losers were all killed, imprisoned, or exiled. The French Revolution was largely the same kind of civil war, they are all extremely violent.
I have no doubt that American perseverance and ingenuity would come into play in the aftermath of some kind of catastrophe to rebuild our country, but only if we're 'pulling together'.
Choose the cynical "me-first" feudalistic approach and all bets are off. In that scenario our best days would truly be behind us.
My point exactly. CVA and some others seem to think the South could secede and go merrily along their conservative way. But such an agenda could only be successfully implemented using totalitarian methods, which sort of defeats the point of seceding to get back to root American principles.
The other thing that strikes me about the notion is its parallel to the idea of passing a constitutional amendment to fix whatever is wrong, because you can’t get a fix through Congress or the courts. Passing an amendment (or seceding) is going to be a great deal more difficult than winning one or a few elections, or even changing the entire American political culture. The notion of going for the 10x harder option B, because option A is too hard seems very odd to me.
It also seems extremely likely to me that the features of our present system they dislike would tend to re-emerge in whatever successor state they establish. Again, without dictatorial power to prevent it, I think these things are built-in bugs of our state of society. They must be fought in situ, you cannot just decide to secede and they will go away.
Our Revolution was much closer to a true civil war than our actual Civil War. The Loyalists, who were, oddly enough, the conservatives in that fight, were treated FAR more harshly during and after the war than secessionists were in the WBTS.
Since then, of course, American conservatism has been redefined as supporting the principles of that Revolution, IMO by far the most radical in history.
Every other revolution has been about which group gets the power and thus the pleasure of pushing everybody else around. Only the American Revolution had the goal, admittedly never fully realized, of giving nobody that power. The people rule themselves.
Why don’t you tell me? You have more in common withe marchers than I ever will.
You are twins, in fact.
But no worries. You are just one more jackal outside the campfire. I guess a few fringe scavengers always are. Too weak and cowardly to do any harm to this great nation.
America has fared far worse than a few blowhards on the Internet with visions of their own petty little fiefdoms.
and I hereby laugh at you.
Oh yeah - he and his other numbnuts won’t do crap except whine and pontificate on FR and other sites.
They talk a big game but they barely leave their keyboards much less prepare to take on the best military in the world.
I agree with you. We have gone past a difference of opinions, we are now different culturally and it runs deeper. I am sick to death of all of the hate and incivility, lack of respect, the whole thing. I didn’t grow up like this and I certainly don’t want my children and grandchildren being around such disgusting people.
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