Posted on 06/25/2010 4:31:27 PM PDT by central_va
IOW they engaged in exactly the same type of activities you earlier expressed skepticism about.
That's rich, coming from Mr. "Who knows or cares what some tar heel thinks is facinating [sic]." You've got a heck of a lot more in common with algore than I do, sport! But I'm sure you're aware of that.
Don't you have a life, or is this it?
Is the rest of your life also focused on your South-hating bigotry - or is this it?
;>)
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So the States were never States outside of the Union - Is that what you are claiming? I'm assuming it is because of that whole Lincoln love affair and all.
When the people speak, they speak as their State. Period. Your boy, Webster, was sure in the hell corrected for your current line of thought:
It is fortunate when disputed theories, can be decided by undisputed facts. And here the undisputed fact is, that the Constitution was made by the people, but as embodied into the several States, who were parties to it; and therefore made by the States in their highest authoritative capacity
Federalist #39
. . . this assent and ratification is to be given by the people, not as individuals composing one entire nation, but as composing the distinct and independent States to which they respectively belong.
Now do the people have the right to reassume their delegated authority ? Or you're going to really stretch the truth and claim that everyone on FR, and through out your old stomping grounds around San Francisco, whom do not receive mail in a specific state; are in fact, domiciled under Obama's desk? This of course is where you've been since his inauguration. So one can see why you wouldn't consider states as individual entities, which makes it difficult to see past the dictator's pants zipper.
Bingo.
Will this thread ever die?
"This is the thread that never ends...it just goes on and on my friends...some people started posting it not knowing what it was...and they'll continue posting it forever just because...this is the thread that never ends...it just goes on and on my friends..."
With apologies to Sherri Lewis.
NS:Bingo.
"When, by the Declaration of Independence, [the nation of Virginia] chose to abolish their former organs of declaring their will, the acts of will already formally and constitutionally declared, remained untouched. For the nation was not dissolved, was not annihilated; its will, therefore, remained in full vigor; and on the establishing the new organs, first of a convention, and afterwards a more complicated legislature, the old acts of national will continued in force, until the nation should, by its new organs, declare its will changed." --Thomas Jefferson to Edmund Randolph, 1799. ME 10:126
"In this case, as in all others, the true principle will be quite as effectual to establish the just deductions, for before the revolution, the nation of Virginia had, by the organs they then thought proper to constitute, established a system of laws, which they divided into three denominations of 1, common law; 2, statute law; 3, Chancery: or if you please, into two only, of 1, common law; 2, Chancery."
Jeffersonian hyperbole not withstanding, there was no nation of Virginia. Prior to the revolution there was the colony of Virginia, which was what the crown and Jefferson and everyone else in Virginia identified it as. At the signing of the Declaration of Independence there was the state or commonwealth of Virginia within the nation known as the United States of America. This status was grated by the Articles of Confederation, and when the Articles were replaced the Virginia was still one of 13 states within the United States. Virginia never once existed as a free and independent and sovereign state outside the United States. Not before the revolution. Not during the revolution. Not afterwards. The colony of Virginia may have had laws and a legal system, and the state of Virginia has the same. But at no time did Virginia have the power to overrule British law, or treat with other nations as an equal, or declare war, or perform any of the other powers a sovereign nation could perform. So never having been an independent entity to begin with how can they delegate powers they never enjoyed to begin with?
Indeed they were States outside of the Union.
Counties and other municipal corporations were created by the States; but the States were not created by the United States, as the States existed as independent sovereignties before even the Union was formed. Words of US S CT Justice Nathan Clifford, Historical Evidence on the Origin and Nature of the Government of the United States, John Brown Dillon (New York, NY, SW Green, 1871), 28.
Under the Articles of Confederation each State retained its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, not expressly delegated to the United States. US S CT Justice Samuel Chase, Ibid., 28.
Before the new Constitution was adopted, she (Virginia) had as much right to treat and agree as any European government had. US S CT Justice John Catron, Ibid., 26.
That, a number of independent states may unite themselves by one common bond or confederacy, for the purposes of common defence and safety, and for the more perfect preservation of amity between themselves, without any of them ceasing to be a perfect, independent, and sovereign state, retaining every power, jurisdiction and right, which it has not expressly agreed shall be exercised in common by the confederacy of the states; and not by any individual state of the confederacy. St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries, Volume 1, Appendix D
This certainly appears to be the case.
He's also an historical revisionist, as is obvious from his latest foray into the ozone (Post #884), and earlier trips as well (Post #659, etc.). When he's caught at it, he generally just refuses to respond. Apparently acknowledging reality is hazardous to his world view...
;>)
Reality is something we seldom have to worry about coming across in most of your posts, sport.
When?
Counties and other municipal corporations were created by the States; but the States were not created by the United States, as the States existed as independent sovereignties before even the Union was formed.
When?
Under the Articles of Confederation each State retained its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, not expressly delegated to the United States.
When did they have the power to declare war or conduct relations with foreign countries or any of the acts that other sovereign entities could do?
Before the new Constitution was adopted, she (Virginia) had as much right to treat and agree as any European government had.
Justice Catron apparently had never read the Articles of Confederation.
N-S: Reality is something we seldom have to worry about coming across in most of your posts, sport.
Care to address my Post #659? You declared in your Post #625 that "losing rebellions is a Southern trait and not a Northern one." Really? Care to comment on the 'real' location of the Whiskey Rebellion, Shays' Rebellion, Fries's Rebellion, or the Dorr Rebellion?
Were they "Southern" rebellions, as you suggested? Hmmm? Perhaps you meant "Southern" Pennsylvania, "Southern" Massachusetts, and "Southern" Rhode Island?
Just admit it: you're an historical revisionist - or else you're simply ignorant, or just a common liar...
;>)
Furthermore, the States delegated they never surrendered certain limited enumerated powers to their agent, the General Government. The States and their people retained unlimited authority that Sovereignty provides . It goes without saying that being able to reform, or abolish or start anew would be some, but not all of the powers reserved.
So sport, either the Colonies acted independently or in unison. Which is it?
ROTFLMAO!!!!
Furthermore, the States delegated they never surrendered certain limited enumerated powers to their agent, the General Government. The States and their people retained unlimited authority that Sovereignty provides . It goes without saying that being able to reform, or abolish or start anew would be some, but not all of the powers reserved.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Lost Cause imagination knows no bounds.
Hence, no trial for Jefferson Davis.
BTW, you ask great questions!
[N-S is] also an historical revisionist, as is obvious from his latest foray into the ozone (Post #884), and earlier trips as well (Post #659, etc.). When he's caught at it, he generally just refuses to respond. Apparently acknowledging reality is hazardous to his world view...
Thanks for proving my point (in Posts #892 & #895) yet again!
Come on, sport: just admit it! You're an historical revisionist - or else you're simply ignorant, or just a common liar...
;>)
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