[Idabilly]

I’ve been sitting back watching you guys rip apart Lincoln and anyone who dares to support him, and I’d like to pose a question to you. Had the Confederacy won their independence, what would the Confederate States of America be like today? What would the powers of the Presidency be like, the Congress, the Judiciary? What amendments would they have made to their Constitution - if they made any, given that the amendment process in the Confederate Constitution was much more difficult than in the U.S. Constitution. What would what we consider second amendment rights or first amendment rights be like? Education? Stuff like that. I’m genuinely curious on what your opinions would be.

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They were not granted the Right of Self Determination. All other points are moot.

Let's say:

Lincoln had chosen the path of Friendly relations. Would we be better off?

The People spoke! They spoke for Secession. He denied the will of the People. People seem to forget all this. What you/me want is irrelevant. This Country is no longer "Free" and the so-called will of The People - Is - Nothing more than a Talking point.

When the people spoke - they - spoke as their state. We are running around in some huge Centralized nanny - State after Lincoln. Who's going to stop them now? Courts? It's not going to stop. Socialism is here!

[Drennan Whyte]

Yes, I know. They were defeated in their attempt to secede. But I’m asking you to speculate what it would have been like if they had won their war and secured their independence. If you’re not interested in playing then that’s fine too.

[equalitybeforethelaw]

Simple, you could contrast a Jeffersonian democracy against an industrial plutocracy. My guess is slavery would have ended by the 1880s. Not because of northern meddling but because of economics. The South would have continued to develop their industrial centers versus being burnt to the ground, making them steadily more and more independent. The South would have allied themselves with England and maybe France for manufactured goods. The changes to the North under these circumstances would have been the most interesting. My guess is if the CSA were to have survived, the North would have been embroiled in nasty relations with England as a competitor for raw materials, finished products and available markets. The frontier west would likely have felt more at home with the Confederacy than the Union as the westward migration continued. I doubt Canada, Englands colony, would have become economically integrated with the North. Essentially, given this bleak picture for the North, I would imagine they would have invaded the South again within 20 years to secure raw materials and markets for their industries. The simple truth always was the South could do without the North, but the North could never make it without the South. For this reason the spousal abuse was instigated by the North and continued for a century. I guess the North believes wives should remain married to abusive husbands. Lincoln in a nutshell.