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To: lentulusgracchus

Yeah, we should just believe what you say instead of what Lincoln said and wrote. What would Lincoln have known about his motives compared to you?

“Lincoln wasn’t an abolitionist like Fremont and Stephens and Sumner.
Not what he was telling people in his letters in the 1840’s and 1850’s.”

In other words you ignore what he wrote in his First Inaugural. Give your magic eight ball a shake and tell us what Abe is telling you from the spirit world, we all want to know.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USASproclamation.htm

“Most members of the Republican Party believed that the Constitution protected slavery in the states. However, some Radical Republicans such as Thaddeus Stevens and Charles Sumner, argued that after the outbreak of the American Civil War the president had the power to abolish slavery in the United States.

In May, 1861, General Benjamin F. Butler, a strong opponent of slavery, was placed in command of Fort Monroe in Virginia. Soon afterwards, runaway slaves began to appear at the fort seeking protection. The slaveowners demanded that the runaways should be returned. Butler refused, issuing a statement that he considered the slaves to be “contraband of war”. Butler’s action was welcomed by those involved in the struggle against slavery and he immediately became a favourite with Radical Republicans.

Abraham Lincoln believed that Butler’s action was unconstitutional. However, after a Cabinet meeting it was decided not to reprimand Butler. Three months later, Major General John C. Fremont, the commander of the Union Army in St. Louis proclaimed that all slaves owned by Confederates in Missouri were free. This time Lincoln decided to ask Fremont to modify his order and free only slaves owned by Missourians actively working for the South.

When John C. Fremont refused to back down he was sacked. Lincoln wrote to Fremont: “Can it be pretended that it is any longer the government of the U.S. - any government of Constitution and laws - wherein a General, or a President, may make permanent rules of property by proclamation.” Fremont was replaced by the conservative General Henry Halleck. He immediately issued an order forbidding runaway slaves from seeking permission to be protected by the Union Army.

Radical Republicans were furious with Lincoln for sacking John C. Fremont. The Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, William Fessenden, described Lincoln’s actions as “a weak and unjustifiable concession in the Union men of the border states. Whereas Charles Sumner wrote to Lincoln complaining about his actions and remarked how sad it was “to have the power of a god and not use it godlike”.

The situation was repeated in May, 1862, when General David Hunter began enlisting black soldiers in the occupied district under his control. Soon afterwards Hunter issued a statement that all slaves owned by Confederates in his area (Georgia, Florida and South Carolina) were free. Lincoln was furious and despite the pleas of Salmon Chase, the Secretary of the Treasury, the instructed him to disband the 1st South Carolina (African Descent) regiment and to retract his proclamation.

On 19th August, 1862, Horace Greeley wrote an open letter to the Abraham Lincoln in the New York Tribune about forcing David Hunter to retract his proclamation. Greeley criticized the president for failing to make slavery the dominant issue of the war and compromising moral principles for political motives. Lincoln famously replied on 22nd August, “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it.”

Despite this public dispute with Horace Greeley, Lincoln was already reconsidering his views on the power of the president to abolish slavery. He wrote that the events of the war had been “fundamental and astounding”. He admitted that these events had changed his mind on emancipation. He was helped in this by William Whiting, a War Department solicitor, who told him that in his opinion, the president’s war powers gave him the right to emancipate the slaves.

After consulting with his vice president, Hannibal Hamlin, Lincoln wrote the first draft of his Emancipation Proclamation. When Lincoln told his Cabinet of his plans to free the slaves in the unconquered Confederacy, Montgomery Blair, the Postmaster General led the attack on the idea. Blair argued that if Lincoln went ahead with this it would result in the Republican Party losing power. William Seward, the Secretary of State, agreed with Lincoln’s decision but advocated that it should not be issued until the Union Army had a major military victory. “


649 posted on 04/20/2010 8:51:10 PM PDT by Pelham (Obamacare, the new Final Solution.)
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To: Pelham
Lincoln was quite wise about policy.

He knew - and the slavery lobby knew - that banning slavery in the federal territories would cause the eventual end of American slavery.

Slavery had to expand or it would die.

This is why the slavery lobby's first strategic war aim was to try to seize the West for the Confederacy.

While everyone was watching Sumter, Baylor was organizing the expedition to seize the New Mexico territory.

From the very beginning, the Confederacy's goal was not "peaceful secession." The goal was to maintain a tenuous peace with the loyal portion of the Union long enough for the Confederacy to equip and position forces to take control of the West.

650 posted on 04/20/2010 9:23:37 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who like to be called Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: Pelham; lentulusgracchus
In other words you ignore what he wrote in his First Inaugural. Give your magic eight ball a shake and tell us what Abe is telling you from the spirit world, we all want to know.

--------------------------------------------------

Again, Facts disprove Lincolnite's mythology.....

Benjamin Wade Not too steady in his grasp of constitutional law, President Buchanan signed the joint resolution the day the Senate approved it: an unnecessary step, given the fact that Congressional power to propose amendments to the Constitution is not subject to presidential approval or veto. Two days later, Abraham Lincoln was inaugurated as the sixteenth president of the United States and the proposed amendment was largely forgotten, although two states, Ohio and Maryland, actually ratified it! An Illinois state constitutional convention that met in 1862 purported to ratify the amendment, but had no legal authority to do so. Interestingly, Lincoln alluded to the Corwin amendment in his First Inaugural Address (paragraph 29). Although he stopped short of endorsing it, he said, "holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable." Those were clearly not the words of a wild-eyed abolitionist (as Lincoln's detractors portrayed him), but of a practical politician trying to manage an unprecedented crisis.

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the following article be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which, when ratified by three-fourths of said Legislatures, shall be valid, to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution, namely: ART. 13. No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State. --12 United States Statutes at Large, 36th Congress, 2nd Session, 1861, p. 251.

http://ghostamendment.com/

651 posted on 04/21/2010 4:11:31 AM PDT by Idabilly (Oh, southern star how I wish you would shine.)
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To: Pelham
Yeah, we should just believe what you say instead of what Lincoln said and wrote. What would Lincoln have known about his motives compared to you?

A lot. Lincoln inveterately played his cards very close to his vest and habitually -- out of personal policy -- never let people really know what he was thinking. He was secretive about his goals and methods.

People like William Herndon and John Nicolay said this about him, two men who knew him better than many, from close observation over years of daily interaction. Nicolay was young and green, but Herndon was a peer, and I simply follow him when making inferences about what Lincoln said and did, in an effort to understand what he really intended all along.

778 posted on 04/21/2010 9:57:17 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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