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To: ALPAPilot
Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence?

Why, yes -- have you?

Your defense of despots like Lenin, Mao, and the Taliban is remarkable.

Thanks. Now show me where I did that.

Congrats on the dumbest post I’ve read.

Thanks again. Now try re-reading it for comprehension.

412 posted on 03/15/2010 7:45:48 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus
WHEN (a conditional i.e. Imposing or depending on or containing a condition) in the Course of human Events, it becomes Necessary (i.e. Absolutely essential) for one People to dissolve the Political Bands (i.e. secession) which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them.

a) a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires (i.e. consider obligatory) that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.

b) Whenever (another conditional) any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends (i.e.the Ends being the previously stated securing of unalienable rights). But not to be changed for light and transient Causes.

c) They can right themselves (again referring to the previously stated securing of unalienable rights. Right themselves meaning the better securing of unalienable rights) by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed.

This argument is essentially the protection of natural right require separation.

You have argued that the converse (Separation requires a protection of natural rights) as premise is a bootless assertion. By which I assume you mean it is false. This is the argument of Marxists such as Lenin and Mao who premised there revolution on (inter alia) the denial of the right to own property; or the Taliban who intend to compel allegiance to their version of the Koran.

that secession as a right cannot be exercised in order to deny natural rights to others.

The DOI was a political statement not a mathematical treatise. There is no need to specify the truth of the converse, especially when the assertion that one has a natural right to deny the natural rights of others is so absurd (i.e. Inconsistent with reason or logic or common sense) I've made the argument that separation is a natural right but that it is conditional. The conditions are those that I've listed from the DOI.

I've also argued that slavery was the primary reason for southern secession. For which I've submitted secession resolutions from South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi and a speech in favor of the Alabama secession resolution.

Therefore I've argued that the DOI cannot properly be used is support of southern secession contra to the original article of this thread.

As Rustbucket noted Jefferson's original draft included the phrase:

He has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating its most sacred rights of life and liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating and carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere, or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither.

This is why I contend that Jefferson v. Lincoln is a false choice.

Even so, having said nothing in regards to the action taken by Lincoln, I've been branded a Lincoln worshiping yankee abortion loving obama supporter, who thinks all southerners are redneck hicks or some such nonsense. I guess the fact that my father, grandfather, great grandfather (confederate soldier and POW) great great grandfather (confederate soldier and POW) farmed cotton (with slaves) on the same piece of dirt in Monroe N.C. makes my sins worse.

466 posted on 03/15/2010 12:17:15 PM PDT by ALPAPilot
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