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To: wolfcreek
That argument about it being all about about slavary has wore thin

It's not MY argument. Slavery was the STATED reason in the Secession Resolution of every state that left, backed up by the large majority of the speeches made in favor of the resolutions.

It reminds me of those who claim the War on Terror isn't about Islam. The terrorists keep saying it is. Why argue. The South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi Legislatures etc. said it was about slavery in their authoritative documents. They wrote them and passed them not me. As for the song I'm singing, It's the principle of the Declaration of Independence. Governments are instituted to protect our unalienable rights. How that can be a long way from Live Free or Die escapes me. I've haven't argued against secession. I've argued that secession as a right cannot be exercised in order to deny natural rights to others. It's like I'm arguing with a bunch of Palestinians - they make the same arguments for independence.

187 posted on 03/12/2010 3:00:52 PM PST by ALPAPilot
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To: ALPAPilot

Sick and F-ing tired of your insults. Ok, I get it, we down here are a bunch of rednecks, the south would be the third world without the North who did them a favor by forcing them to stay in the Union. It was about slavery for the South and somehow there is a Palistinian connection. You want to know why I know the Republic is finished? Look in the mirror.


188 posted on 03/12/2010 3:26:35 PM PST by central_va ( http://www.15thvirginia.org)
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To: ALPAPilot
It reminds me of those who claim the War on Terror isn't about Islam.

Dribble. No less from a yankee living in a commie state.

Read the South Carolina Secession Declaration It discusses private property which is protected by the Constitution.

"The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows:

[p18] "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."

[p19] This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made."

Whether you like it or not, African slaves were considered private property when the Constitution was ratified and the Southern states maintained that the federal government couldn't just willy-nilly take private property from the citizens. Therefore, if disHonest Abe intended to ignore the Constitution, then the South felt obliged to dissolve the compact that they entered into of their own free will.

It's like I'm arguing with a bunch of Palestinians

And arguing with you damnyankees is like arguing with a bunch of damn Soviets. It's no wonder that we've never gotten along.............

189 posted on 03/12/2010 3:27:29 PM PST by cowboyway
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To: ALPAPilot
“It's not MY argument. Slavery was the STATED reason in the Secession Resolution of every state that left”

All of them? My family didn't own any slaves.

Whereas, in addition to the well-founded causes of complaint set forth by this convention, in resolutions adopted on the 11th of March, A.D. 1861, against the sectional party now in power in Washington City, headed by Abraham Lincoln, he has, in the face of resolutions passed by this convention pledging the State of Arkansas to resist to the last extremity any attempt on the part of such power to coerce any State that had seceded from the old Union, proclaimed to the world that war should be waged against such States until they should be compelled to submit to their rule, and large forces to accomplish this have by this same power been called out, and are now being marshaled to carry out this inhuman design; and to longer submit to such rule, or remain in the old Union of the United States, would be disgraceful and ruinous to the State of Arkansas:

We, the people of the State of North Carolina in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance adopted by the State of North Carolina in the convention of 1789, whereby the Constitution of the United States was ratified and adopted, and also all acts and parts of acts of the General Assembly ratifying and adopting amendments to the said Constitution, are hereby repealed, rescinded, and abrogated.

We do further declare and ordain, That the union now subsisting between the State of North Carolina and the other States, under the title of the United States of America, is hereby dissolved, and that the State of North Carolina is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which belong and appertain to a free and independent State.

First. We, the people of the State of Tennessee, waiving any expression of opinion as to the abstract doctrine of secession, but asserting the right, as a free and independent people, to alter, reform, or abolish our form of government in such manner as we think proper, do ordain and declare that all the laws and ordinances by which the State of Tennessee became a member of the Federal Union of the United States of America are hereby abrogated and annulled, and that all the rights, functions, and powers which by any of said laws and ordinances were conveyed to the Government of the United States, and to absolve ourselves from all the obligations, restraints, and duties incurred thereto; and do hereby henceforth become a free, sovereign, and independent State.

An act declaring the political ties heretofore existing between the State of Missouri and the United States of America dissolved.

Whereas the Government of the United States, in the possession and under the control of a sectional party, has wantonly violated the compact originally made between said Government and the State of Missouri, by invading with hostile armies the soil of the State, attacking and making prisoners the militia while legally assembled under the State laws, forcibly occupying the State capitol, and attempting through the instrumentality of domestic traitors to usurp the State government, seizing and destroying private property, and murdering with fiendish malignity peaceable citizens, men, women, and children, together with other acts of atrocity, indicating a deep-settled hostility toward the people of Missouri and their institutions; and

190 posted on 03/12/2010 3:35:25 PM PST by Idabilly
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To: ALPAPilot

The litany of secession:
If a state or states causes you to live in socialism, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to remain a republic maimed and crippled than to stay a collective whole and to be thrown into eternal Bolshevik fire.

And if your federal government causes you to sin, secede from it, peacefully hopefully, but secede just the same. It is better for you to enter into liberty a smaller sovereign state than to be thrown into fiery collective hell

And the original Mathew 18:8

If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or crippled than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into fiery Gehenna.


195 posted on 03/12/2010 3:49:45 PM PST by central_va ( http://www.15thvirginia.org)
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To: ALPAPilot; cowboyway; Idabilly

The litany of secession:
If a state or states causes you to live in socialism, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to remain a republic maimed and crippled than to stay a collective whole and to be thrown into eternal Bolshevik fire.

And if your federal government causes you to sin, secede from it, peacefully hopefully, but secede just the same. It is better for you to enter into liberty a smaller sovereign state than to be thrown into fiery collective hell

And the original Mathew 18:8

If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or crippled than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into fiery Gehenna.


196 posted on 03/12/2010 3:50:58 PM PST by central_va ( http://www.15thvirginia.org)
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To: ALPAPilot

State Of Maryland
Legislative Resolution

Whereas, The war against the Confederate States is unconstitutional and repugnant to civilization, and will result in a bloody and shameful overthrow of our institutions; and whilst recognizing the obligations of Maryland to the Union, we sympathize with the South in the struggle for their rights-for the sake of humanity, we are for peace and reconciliation, and solemnly protest against this war, and will take no part in it:—
Resolved, That Maryland implores the President, in the name of God, to cease this unholy war, at least until Congress assembles; that Maryland desires and consents to the recognition of the independence of the Confederate States. The military occupation of Maryland is unconstitutional, and she protests against it, though the violent interference with transit of Federal is discountenanced; that the vindication of her rights be left to time and reason, and that a convention, under existing circumstances, is inexpedient.


199 posted on 03/12/2010 4:03:42 PM PST by Idabilly
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To: ALPAPilot; Idabilly; cowboyway; central_va; All

It’s like saying climate change legislation is about saving the planet. No, it’s about money and power.

Like I said , Brother, it’s 2010 and that war is history. A new one might be right around the corner.

Choose your side carefully.


246 posted on 03/13/2010 7:27:41 AM PST by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: ALPAPilot
I've argued that secession as a right cannot be exercised in order to deny natural rights to others.

Where the heck did you come up with that bromide?

You cannot find me an authority in the Constitution or the ratification debates that offers you a peg for that one.

That's just a bootless assertion out of thin air. It's pure feelgood propaganda.

297 posted on 03/14/2010 7:55:07 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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