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To: Danae

We still would like to see Obama prove that he was born in Hawaii. We all know Obama could have received a Hawaiian birth certificate by a statement from a witness of his birth which was accepted by the DoH. Red flags would fly if that’s the case.


324 posted on 02/23/2010 6:24:05 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel
Check this out from http://obamacrimes.com/?p=376

BadFiction – “The Indonesian Citizenship Myth”

http://badfiction.typepad.com/badfiction/the-indonesian-citizenship-myth.html

The Indonesian Citizenship Myth

I have read this post in detail and must say, with all due respect, I disagree.  Some very important parts were left out, which I do not believe was intentional.  Thus, I would like to respond accordingly.

First, I am unsure as to where badfiction obtained the Indonesian laws, I’m unsure as to the dates, etc.  However, there are discrepancies.

Badfiction is correct in stating that if a woman married a foreign citizen they would have lost their U.S. citizenship status if married prior to September 22, 1922.  However, there is more to this, see 8 U.S.C. Section 1435(a)(2) which states “on or after September 22, 1922, a women who lost United States citizenship by marriage to an alien ineligible to citizenship…”  However, Indonesia also required Stanley Ann Dunham to relinquish her U.S. Citizenship, which is an affirmative act, therefore, Stanley Ann Dunham did not simply lose her U.S. Citizenship status by marriage alone.

Badfiction claims that a parent cannot expatriate a child’s U.S. citizenship, however, this is not correct.   See The Nationality Act of 1940, revised 1952, Section 318(a)  “A former citizen of the United States expatriated through the expatriation of such person’s parent or parents and who has not acquired the nationality of another country by any affirmative act other than the expatriation of his parent or parents may be naturalized upon filing a petition for naturalization before reaching age of twenty-five years and upon compliance with all requirements of the naturalization laws with the following exceptions:  (b) No former citizen of the United States, expatriated through the expatriation of such person’s parent or parents shall be obliged to comply with the requirements of the immigration laws, if he has not not acquired the nationality of another country by any affirmative act other than the expatriation of his parent or parents, and if he has come or shall come to the United States before reaching the age of twenty-five years.  (c) After his naturalization such person shall have the same citizenship status as if he had not been expatriated.”

Renewing an Indonesian Passport after the age of 18 is an affirmative act, as you are swearing allegiance to another Country.  Soetoro/Obama renewed his Indonesian Passport when he traveled to Pakistan, that is why he had to stop in Indonesia first.  Remember, in 1981, Dunham was divorcing Soetoro in Hawaii and was not in Indonesia.  Obama/Soetoro admits to traveling to Indonesia first and then onto Pakistan.  Soetoro/Obama claims in his book “Dreams from my father” that he stopped in Indonesia to visit his mother.  But again, his mother was not in Indonesia, she was in Hawaii with Maya, divorcing Lolo Soetoro.  In addition, the State Department has stated in response to a FOIA request that they do not have a U.S. Passport application on file for  Barack H. Obama.

Despite the above however, Indonesia required Obama/Soetoro to do a bit more upon his 18th birthday.  In fact the Indonesian law gives until the age of 21.  Soetoro/Obama would have had to sign an Affidavit relinquishing his Indonesian citizenship and said Affidavit had to be sent to the Indonesian Government before reclaiming any U.S. citizenship he may have once held.

When it comes to the citizenship of  individuals in other countries, we are prevented from interfering, Hague Convention 1930. Speaking of Indonesia, during the late 60’s all the way up until 2006 Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship.  In 2006 they changed their laws to permit dual citizenship, however, Indonesia has had its battles with enforcing their new law permitting dual citizenship.

With this said, from the research we have done, it appears that Soetoro became an Indonesian citizen.  When Soetoro/Obama was approximately four (4) years old his parents divorced and thereafter, Soetoro/Obama’s mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, married Lolo Soetoro, a citizen of Indonesia.  Evidence points to the fact that Lolo Soetoro either signed a government form legally “acknowledging” Soetoro/Obama as his son or “adopted” Soetoro, either of which changed any citizenship status Soetoro/Obama had to a “natural” citizen of Indonesia.

At the time Barry Soetoro was in Indonesia, all Indonesian students were required to carry government identity cards or Karty Tanda Pendudaks, as well as family card identification called a Kartu Keluarga.  The Kartu Keluarga is a family card which bears the legal names and citizenship status of all family members.

Soetoro/Obama was registered in a public school as an Indonesian citizen by the name of Barry Soetoro and his father was listed as Lolo Soetoro, M.A.  Indonesia did not allow foreign students to attend their public schools in the late 1960’s or 1970’s, and any time a child was registered for a public school, the child’s name and citizenship status were verified through the Indonesian Government.  See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia (Undang-Undang Dasar Republik Indonesia 1945), Chapter 13, Law No. 62 of 1958 (all citizens of Indonesia have a right to education).  The Indonesian school record, indicates that Soetoro/Obama’s name is “Barry Soetoro;” his nationality is “Indonesia” and his father “Lolo Soetoro, M.A.  There was no way for Soetoro/Obama to have attended school in Jakarta, Indonesia legally unless he was an Indonesian citizen, as Indonesia was under tight rule and was a Police State.  See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia (Undang-Undang Dasar Republik Indonesia 1945), Law No. 62 of 1958.  These facts indicate that Obama/Soetoro is an Indonesian citizen, and therefore he is not eligible to be President of the United States.

Under Indonesian law, when a male acknowledges a child as his son, it deems the son, in this case Soetoro/Obama, an Indonesian State citizen.  See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia, Law No. 62 of 1958 concerning Immigration Affairs and Indonesian Civil Code (Kitab Undang-undang Hukum Perdata) (KUHPer) (Burgerlijk Wetboek voor Indonesie).

Furthermore, under the Indonesian adoption law, once an Indonesian citizen adopts a child, the adoption severs the child’s relationship to the birth parents, and the adopted child is given the same status as a natural child and the child takes the name of his step-father, in this case, Soetoro. See Indonesian Constitution, Article 2.

The Indonesian citizenship law was designed to prevent apatride (stateless) or bipatride (dual) citizenship.  Indonesian regulations recognized neither apatride nor bipatride (stateless or dual) citizenship.  Since Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship; neither did the United States (since the United States only permitted dual citizenship when ‘both’ countries agree); and since Obama/Soetoro was a “natural” citizen of Indonesia, the United States would not step in or interfere with the laws of Indonesia.  Hague Convention of 1930.

As a result of Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian “natural” citizenship status, Soetoro/Obama could never regain U.S. “natural born” status, if he in fact he ever held such, which we doubt.  Soetoro/Obama could have only become “naturalized” if the proper paperwork were filed with the U.S. State Department, after going through U.S. Immigration upon his return to the United States; in which case, Soetoro/Obama would have received a Certification of Citizenship indicating “naturalized.”

We are informed, believe and thereon allege Obama/Soetoro was never naturalized in the United States after his return.  Soetoro/Obama was ten (10) years old when he returned to Hawaii to live with his grandparents.  Soetoro/Obama’s mother did not return with him.  Therefore, it appears that she did not apply for citizenship for Soetoro/Obama in the United States.  If citizenship for Soetoro/Obama had been applied for in 1971, Soetoro/Obama would have a Certification of Citizenship.  If Soetoro/Obama returned in 1971 to Hawaii without going through U.S. Immigration, today he would be an “illegal alien” – and obviously not able to serve as President, but also his term as a United States Senator from Illinois for nearly four (4) years was illegal.  We further believe Soetoro might have reentered the United States at age ten (10) by showing a copy of his Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth, which he received when his birth was registered in Hawaii.

In addition, we have been unable to locate any legal documents wherein Soetoro’s name was legally changed from Barry Soetoro to Barack Hussein Obama.  Soetoro/Obama’s silence on these issues is deafening and his refusal to release such records to prove that none of this occurred results in his status as Acting Commander in Chief at best, and a willful action on his part to deceive the American People and the Armed Forces of the United States so that he may wield power that is in non-compliance with the United States Constitution.


333 posted on 02/23/2010 7:30:23 PM PST by Danae (Don't like our Constitution? Try living in a country with out one.)
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To: Red Steel

Now wrap your noodle around this!!!! No wonder Title III was wiped off the internet!!:

From PDF page 285, http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/sal/066_statutes_at_large.pdf

FORMER CITIZENS OF UNITED STATES REGAINING UNITED STATES
CITIZENSHIP
SEC. 324. (a) Any person formerly a citizen of the United States
who (1) prior to September 22, 1922, lost United States citizenship
by marriage to an alien, or by the loss of United States citizenship of
such person’s spouse, or (2) on or after September 22, 1922, lost United
States citizenship by marriage to an alien ineligible to citizenship .
may if no other nationality was acquired by an affirmative act of such
person other than by marriage be naturalized upon compliance with
all requirements of this title, except-
(1) no period of residence or specified period of physical presence
within the United States or within the State where the
petition is filed shall be required ;
(2) the petition need not set forth that it is the intention of the
petitioner to reside permanently within the United States ;
(3) the petition may be filed in any court having naturalization
jurisdiction, regardless of the residence of the petitioner ;
66 STAT .J
PUBLIC LAW 414-JUNE 27, 1952
(4) the petition may be heard at any time after filing if there
is attached to the petition at the time of filing a certificate from a
naturalization examiner stating that the petitioner and the witnesses
have appeared before such examiner for examination .
Such person, or any person who was naturalized in accordance with
the provisions of section 317 (a) of the Nationality Act of 1940, shall
have, from and after her naturalization, the status f a native-born or
naturalized citizen of the United States, whichever status existed in
the case of such person prior to the loss of citizenship : Provided,
That nothing contained herein or in any other provision of law shall
be construed as conferring United States citizenship retroactively
upon such person, or upon any person who was naturalized in accordance
with the provisions of section 317 (a) of the Nationality Act of
1940, during any period in which such person was not a citizen .
(b) No person who is otherwise eligible for naturalization in accordance
with the provisions of subsection (a) of this section shall be
naturalized unless such person shall establish to the satisfaction of the
naturalization court that she has been a person of good moral character,
attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States,
and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United
States for a. period of not less than five years immediately preceding
the date of filing a petition for naturalization and up to the time
of admission to citizenship, and, unless she has resided continuously
in the United States since the date of her marriage, has been lawfully
admitted for permanent residence prior to filing her petition for
naturalization .
(c) (1) A woman who was a citizen of the United States at birth
and (A) who has or is believed to have lost her United States citizenship
solely by reason of her marriage prior to September 22, 1922, to an
alien, or by her marriage on or after such date to an alien ineligible
to citizenship, (B) whose marriage to such alien shall have terminated
subsequent to January 12, 1941, and (C) who has not acquired by an
affirmative act other than by marriage any other nationality, shall,
from and after taking the oath of allegiance required by section 337
of this title, be a citizen of the United States and have the status f a
citizen of the United States by birth, without filing a petition for
naturalization, and notwithstanding any of the other provisions of this
title except the provisions of section 313 : Provided, That nothing
contained herein or in any other provision of law shall be construed as
conferring United States citizenship retroactively upon such person,
or upon any person who was naturalized in accordance with the
provisions of section 317 (b) of the Nationality Act of 1940, during
any period in which such person was not a citizen .
(2) Such oath of allegiance may be taken abroad before a diplomatic
or consular officer of the United States, or in the United States
before the judge or clerk of a naturalization court .
(3) Such oath of allegiance shall be entered in the records of the
appropriate embassy, legation, consulate, or naturalization court, and,
upon demand, a certified copy of the proceedings, including a copy
of the oath administered, under the seal of the embassy, legation,
consulate, or naturalization court, shall be delivered to such woman at
a cost not exceeding $5, which certified copy shall be evidence of the
facts stated therein before any court of record or judicial tribunal and
in any department or agency of the Government of the United States .
54 Stat . 8 USC 71171.46 .
247
Additional requirements
.
Oath of allegiance
.
248


335 posted on 02/23/2010 7:43:08 PM PST by Danae (Don't like our Constitution? Try living in a country with out one.)
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