A life not worth living?

BBC News ^ | 9/25/09 | BBC News

[narses]

I wan’t aware that hitting the abuse button versus engaging in flame wars was a bad thing here. Suggesting another freeper has a “Serious mental deficit there” is clearly abusive and against the site TOS - to wit:

Please: NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts.

Since I was the poster attacked, I hit the abuse button rather than respond in kind. Now you tell me I should not have done that. Are personal attacks now allowed?

[Admin Moderator]

Get over it.

[MarkBsnr]

***Some freepers cannot hold a discussion without calling in their posse to help defend them...

No newbie, some FReepers just realize that there are other FReepers who are interested in certain topics. This IS a PRO-LIFE forum, that issue IS NOT up for debate.***

Either human life is sacred or else it isn’t. It is no mistake that those who oppose abortion AND capital punishment AND euthanasia are consistent and following the commands of Christ at least in that way. Those who only support one or two out of the three are hypocrites and when they post that hypocrisy on a public forum, they can and should be called out.

*** If you don’t agree with them, well, your just going to hell and they are psychic about you based on a few comments made.

No, there are some pro-death trolls on here with long standing records.***

Advocating killing people is a significant comment. If you are going to commit suicide, then do so without fuss or publicity or any of the narcissistic crap that so often accompanies the (usually) non feat. Attempted starvation in 2005? Bushwa. If this idiot wanted commit suicide, that would have been accomplished.

Starving a helpless human being to death and calling it merciful is worse than immoral. It is criminal both in the eyes of men and of God. Jesus taught us to have mercy on our fellow man and to help the helpless, not to kill them like unwanted kittens.

***Their threads are usually good for a insight into the fringe of pseudo Christians.

So, you consider OPPOSING euthanasia to be a “pseud-Christian” position? If that is the case you have a serious misunderstanding of what Christianity is.***

Let us see you put your “orthodox Christian beliefs (whatever they are)” into practice.

[wagglebee]

I didn’t hit abuse on post 38 (though I did on another post).

Why would I post this to the religion forum, it’s not a religious thread.

Jim has always said that FR is pro-life, if I have been to vigilant in my support of the pro-life movement I apologize for the misunderstanding.

[narses]

Sure, get over reporting abusive personal attacks? Get over reporting trolls? Get over defending the prolife nature of this site? Tell me where personal attacks are allowed and when, I might want to get into that game.

[Cicero]

I don’t seem much point in barging in about most of this. There seem to be two things at stake. One is an argument over phrasing. It seems to me that in the end that is pretty pointless. The other is an argument over euthanasia. On that, it seems to me that the traditional view should hold—that all men have an “inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

If someone really wants to commit suicide, I think it’s wrong, but there’s really no way that I can stop them. But I oppose the idea that they have a right to be helped to commit suicide by their doctors. Especially by a government-run national healthcare system.

Because, once you encourage that, then you really do get into the slippery slope, as we have seen in the Netherlands—where people have been killed for convenience against their wills—and are are beginning to see in England.

Once healthcare workers and doctors get used to killing their patients instead of trying to save them, you are going to start running into plenty of problems—such as killing people because the government is running a deficit and wants to save money.

[MarkBsnr]

Please see FReepmail.

[dsc]

He asked a question. “Get over it” is not a reply.

Basic human dignity entitles a person to more courtesy than that.

[Admin Moderator]

How about this?

Argue about the topic on the thread and leave the mods out of it. We will not referee petty disagreements and personal vendattas.

You people need to grow up as FR is a site for grownups.

[NYer]

"I still want to die. I don't believe in prolonging a life that isn't worth living."

This is the statement of one who does not know God. Those who know God also know that every life is worth living be it for a few hours or many decades.

At his blog Journeys in Alterity, Kyle Cupp has posted this Eulogy to Vivian Marie Cupp. It’s a tribute to his infant daughter who died Sept. 24 only 15 hours after she was born, due to the congenital disorder of anencephaly that was diagnosed while she was in the womb.

The grieving father’s eulogy is a true love story, one that communicates how precious is the gift of every human life and every moment of each life no matter how short or long. And it’s a pro-life love story that serves as a testament on behalf of Kyle and his wife Genece’s decision to welcome Vivian into this world with all the love in their hearts, despite knowing that their daughter was fated to die so soon after her birth. Read More

Each life is an expression of God's love, even if we don't respond. The biggest problem we face today is a return to pagan society. This is the fruit.

[Melian]

I think most people who believe in Christ feel that His life illustrated the redemptive value of suffering. Christ had to suffer to redeem us and apparently God found that to be valuable. In doing so, Christ validated the value of suffering, just as His life validated every other aspect of human life, from the womb to the tomb.

People who are suffering can offer their torment up to God to redeem their own sins or the sins of the world. Many saints practiced some form of personal agony and offered it up to God in reparation for sin. It unites the sufferer with Christ in a special way. We can do it with small pains too.

Saying that, I know that people in terrible, chronic pain often feel life is not worth living and want to die. Perhaps if they could view it as a special cross to bear for God, it would ease their hearts, if not their bodies.

If I knew that suffering patiently for God’s sake would purify me and help me get into Heaven, I would endure it, I hope. I have often offered up individual days of pain in the past.

I have also found that I can do mind over matter in many instances of pain; and I think that people who walk on hot coals or beds of nails illustrate that as well. It can be done.

[Not gonna take it anymore]

What is so sad to me is that she truly feels that she has nothing to give. That it is just better to shut it down since she is going to die anyway.

Well, we are all going to die anyway, so should we shut it down early so we don’t have any pain or suffering? It’s only okay to live if everything goes exactly the way we want it?

Since I believe in God then I have to believe in life. Because He created me then there has to be more to me than just a good day today.

Maybe all we can do if pray for her and others like her and work as hard as we can so that euthanasia is never passed as a federal law here. There are already states that allow assisted suicide and that’s just the start of that slope.

[narses]

“You people need to grow up as FR is a site for grownups.”

versus

Please: NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts.

OK, I get it - the rules have changed. Thank you.

[wagglebee]

Well, we are all going to die anyway, so should we shut it down early so we don’t have any pain or suffering? It’s only okay to live if everything goes exactly the way we want it?

You are 100% correct. A person's character is based on how they act when things ARE NOT perfect.

[fanfan]

And lastly, when others don't agree with your point of view in a completely open, unbranded discussion, you can launch any unfounded ad hominen opinion you wish, such as “book of disrespect”, “red herring” and “stench.” But when you enter a thread that is open, but clearly labeled “Moral Absolutes” that is pinged to a majority of FReepers who have joined it expressly because they have very clear, very traditionally conservative points of view as to what a moral absolute consists of, you then go negative. To what purpose? You will have to improve both your reading comprehension and your debate skills before convincing any of us that your ostensibly libertarian, anarchic point of view is good for society.

I didn't notice the “Moral Absolutes” tag, nor would I have understood the implication if I had seen it. I found this post under ‘current posts”, with no headers on. Does the MA tag mean those of us who disagree may not post on the thread? It's just a ping list, isn't it?

I agree with Gondring that if at some point, for what ever reason, I decide it is my time to go, I want the option to go peacefully and legally.
I do not want anyone to have someone else decide for me, or others.

Did Gondring go negative at first? I don't think so.

One last thing, suicide has been with us a long time.
From Wiki (I know!)

The term euthanasia comes from the Greek words “eu”-meaning good and “thanatos”-meaning death, which combined means “well-death” or “dying well”. Hippocrates mentions euthanasia in the Hippocratic Oath, which was written between 400 and 300 B.C. The original Oath states: “To please no one will I prescribe a deadly drug nor give advice which may cause his death.”[10] Despite this, the ancient Greeks and Romans generally did not believe that life needed to be preserved at any cost and were, in consequence, tolerant of suicide in cases where no relief could be offered to the dying or, in the case of the Stoics and Epicureans, where a person no longer cared for his life.

Oh, and I wasn't one of the people who pm'd Gondring earlier. I just came across this thread 20 mins. ago. Wagglebee, you know I like you, and Albion, I like your posts (I don't really know you as well.). No hard feelings, just learning through intelligent debate, I hope. Gondring, thank you for your contribution to this site as well. Challenging conventional wisdom can be hard sometimes. :-)

[goat granny]

:O) calling in your posse again I see......

[dsc]

“You people need to grow up as FR is a site for grownups.”

As I said, basic human dignity entitles a person to more courtesy than that.

Such conduct does not reflect well on Free Republic.

[wagglebee]

I pinged a few, I’ll ping more next time.

[BykrBayb]

The rules changed a while ago. It just wasn’t posted until now. I remember when our founder’s stated views were upheld by all the moderators, not just on the Religion Forum.

[goat granny]

Hello posse, calling me a newbie or noob is Oh so yesterday....There is nothing in my post that would lead you to believe I am not a conservative, but pro-life according to your definition

So, you consider OPPOSING euthanasia to be a “pseud-Christian” position? If that is the case you have a serious misunderstanding of what Christianity is.****

This is just another ONE POSSE's definition of Christianity and I love the way you judge others according to your own belief system..

FYI most of the stuff you posted to me, I never said I would do or believe in....JUDGEMENTAL little christian aren't you.. Length of time of being a freeper does not automatically make you intelligent nor insightful.

I have had lots of freepers than have been on this forum a long time, agree with me on many subjects....these absolute pro-life articles are usually ignored by me as a waste of time...

You brought up starving a human being, I did not, you have no idea what my opinion is on that...why bring it up, just to try and pump up your psychic abilities?

You brought up pro-death trolls, I didn't

But I did seem to hit a nerve with my opinion of some of you being pseudo Christians....Its usually the dog that yelps that got hit with the stone..