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To: David
there is very good reason to believe that this man is also still an Indonesian citizen!

Lolo Soetoro adopted little barry in Hawaii when Lolo married Stanley Ann. Living in Indonesia, Barry Soetoro attended school as an Indonesian citizen. Then, when he was ten and still the adopted son of Lolo, Stanley Ann shipped him back to Hawaii to live with Toots and Stanley senior. He likely traveled on an Indonesian passport at age ten.

Barry graduated from High School in late Spring of 1979. He entered Occidental College in California in August or September of 1979, likely under the name Barry Soetoro since he was still the legally adopted son of Lolo Soetoro, according to Stanley Ann's pleading the next year in her divorce suit.

In 1980, Stanley Ann sued for divorce from Lolo Soetoro, in Hawaii, though she was still a resident of Indonesia ... she was married to Lolo in Hawaii before moving to Indonesia, and the adoption took place in Hawaii. In Stanley Ann's pleading to the court, she cited TWO children Lolo was legally responsible for supporting, one over eighteen who needed educational assistance. That means that Barry Soetoro was still legally known as an Indonesian citizen in 1980.

So far, not one scrap of paper has been found showing that Barry Soetoro ever legally changed his name to Barack Hussein Obama, so at the very worst he is still Barry Soetoro and only using Barack Obama as the name he held prior to legal adoption in Hawaii by Lolo Soetoro.

This makes a good case for even more documentation to be released from Hawaiian Vital Records, because if this lying fraud didn't legally change his name to Barack Hussein Obama at some time after 1980, he has purjered himself to Chief Justice John 'the pirate' Roberts when sworn in one of those two events! And if he was sworn in as Barack Obama and again as Barry Soetoro, by all that's holy I want to know the truth about this lying affirmative action criminal!

David, perhaps you would care to weigh in on the legal aspects of Barry Soetoro and Barack Obama names and presentments as Indonesain citizen and American citizen?

8,503 posted on 08/10/2009 3:23:44 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN; BP2; hoosiermama; Fred Nerks; LucyT
there is very good reason to believe that this man is also still an Indonesian citizen! Lolo Soetoro adopted little barry in Hawaii when Lolo married Stanley Ann. Living in Indonesia, Barry Soetoro attended school as an Indonesian citizen. Then, when he was ten and still the adopted son of Lolo, Stanley Ann shipped him back to Hawaii to live with Toots and Stanley senior. He likely traveled on an Indonesian passport at age ten. Barry graduated from High School in late Spring of 1979. He entered Occidental College in California in August or September of 1979, likely under the name Barry Soetoro since he was still the legally adopted son of Lolo Soetoro, according to Stanley Ann's pleading the next year in her divorce suit. In 1980, Stanley Ann sued for divorce from Lolo Soetoro, in Hawaii, though she was still a resident of Indonesia ... she was married to Lolo in Hawaii before moving to Indonesia, and the adoption took place in Hawaii. In Stanley Ann's pleading to the court, she cited TWO children Lolo was legally responsible for supporting, one over eighteen who needed educational assistance. That means that Barry Soetoro was still legally known as an Indonesian citizen in 1980. So far, not one scrap of paper has been found showing that Barry Soetoro ever legally changed his name to Barack Hussein Obama, so at the very worst he is still Barry Soetoro and only using Barack Obama as the name he held prior to legal adoption in Hawaii by Lolo Soetoro.

I don't think the name change by itself means much. Legally, you might have trouble with your perjury argument or with the proposition that the name alone means much as long as it wasn't being used by A to deceive people into thinking he was B. Reason people spend money and go through these elaborate proceedings from a legal point of view to change names is to be sure that their name representation to the credit card company and the bank and the IRS and their employer with their SS card is acceptable and to get a Court Order which can be used by itself to line up all the identification documents on the same name.

Fact he is still an Indonesian citizen is substantive. And his Indonesian citizenship and subjection to Indonesian sovereignty ought to preclude him from being a Natural Born Citizen, even if he were born in Hawaii (he wasn't).

However, I would not be surprised (although this is out and out speculation) to find that what he did at some point was do a State Department proceeding to reclaim his citizenship under the statute that permits children to disaffirm acts of their parents surrendering citizenship.

That would have been the easiest proceeding to hide; and would have produced documents he could have used to get a passport. And might very well, as you suggest, have resulted in a filing with Hawaii that would have generated him some form of fake birth certificate.

8,506 posted on 08/10/2009 3:40:37 PM PDT by David (...)
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