[carcraft]

I have an open mind on this and am looking at all sides. It has been reported that the Information in the announcement of Obama’s birth in the two papers came from hospital records. Hawaiian officials say they have seen the birth certificate and that Obama was born in Hawaii and a US citizen. Why would they go out on a limb and lie? The Dunham’s probably had connections to the newspapers. Obama’s grand ma was in banking and Obama’s dad work in furnature retail sales so they probably could have gotten the announcement placed. If Orly doesn't have a good origin for the document (you know, mailed from a post office next to Kinko's) this could be problematic unless Kenyan officials will verify the document or it can be verified in other ways. There is a lot of good information but I think by Monday evening we will be in a better position to know the truth!

[Mr Ramsbotham]

If Orly doesn't have a good origin for the document (you know, mailed from a post office next to Kinko's) this could be problematic unless Kenyan officials will verify the document or it can be verified in other ways.

That, I believe, was the gist of the court motion--to get Kenyan officials to release the original documentation. The plaintiffs aren't saying that this is the smoking gun, and until there's official confirmation, I don't think anyone here on FR is saying that either.

[9YearLurker]

The point is that the Hawaiian officials wouldn’t have to be lying. At the time in Hawaii, all it took was for a relative to vouch for the baby’s having been born in Hawaii. If that is the basis of Obama’s birth certificate there, that’s also good reason for him to hide behind the short form—and for the Democrats in office to confirm that’s what his BC actually states—without further specifying the tenuousness of it.

That said, I of course don’t know the real situation in his case either.

[wintertime]

Hawaiian officials say they have seen the birth certificate and that Obama was born in Hawaii and a US citizen.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

They have **never** used the word “birth certificate”. They refer to “vital records”. Some of these “vital records” may have been filed by Obama himself.

Their pronouncements have been carefully worded obfuscations. They are careful to NOT lie but merely mislead.

Also...I will bet my entire 401K plan that **no one** since the dawn of our nation has ever had a birth document with the words “natural born” written on it! Dr. Fukino ( a physician) is making a legal pronouncement and judgment in a legal area in which she has no training whatsoever.

[SaraJohnson]

If a judge sets out to discover if Obama is a natural born citizen, there are many documents needed from birth and from his adoption. Birth certificate, passports, legal papers concerning his Indonesian citizenship, school records... Just that he was not born to two American parents is a question for natural born citizenship.

Not everything rests upon any one document. Orly is not hinding from the court that the document must be verified.