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To: Non-Sequitur

They were admitted afte rapplying. It was their choice. Furthermore, the states — the original ones anyway — predate teh Union. The states created the Union, not vice versa, therefore they can leave the Union or dissove it if they choose. As I said, nothing prohibits secession, so any state could legally secede if it chose to do so. Thus, Mr. lincoln’s use of force to prevent them from doing so violated the Constitution.

To quote Eldridge Cleaver on his return to America from China, Cuba, and other such countries, “I would rather be in prison in the United States than ‘free’ in any of those countries.” Nobody is saying we shoudl reinstitute slavery, bu Cleaver is right and so is Dr. Williams. Black Americans are freer, richer, and generally better off than the black peope in the countries of their ancestry. There is NO question that that is true. Had their ancestors not been brought here, many of them would not be here today.

Slavery was horrible, but the descendents of slaves are clarly better off.


65 posted on 05/06/2009 12:35:10 PM PDT by TBP
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To: TBP
They were admitted afte rapplying. It was their choice.

Not at all. You only have to look at states like Colorado and Kansas to realize that the desires of the people in the territories don't matter compared to the will of Congress. Kansas presented three different constitutions before Congress would agree to admit them. Colorado first requested statehood in 1864, it was 1876 before they were finally admitted.

The states created the Union, not vice versa, therefore they can leave the Union or dissove it if they choose

One could say the Union created most of the states - 37 of them anyway - by admitting them into the Union. If Congress has to approve admission then shouldn't it have to approve leaving?

As I said, nothing prohibits secession, so any state could legally secede if it chose to do so.

A whole lot of men of the period would disagree with you on that one. And not just Lincoln, either. Jackson, Clay, Madison, Webster, Buchanan, all were on record as saying secession was illegal altogether or, in the case of Madison, permissible with the consent of the states.

Thus, Mr. lincoln’s use of force to prevent them from doing so violated the Constitution.

I'd point out that Lincoln did nothing to prevent the Southern secession, not being president when it happened. And once inaugurated he did nothing to force the Southern states back into the Union until they chose war to further their aims.

To quote Eldridge Cleaver on his return to America from China, Cuba, and other such countries, “I would rather be in prison in the United States than ‘free’ in any of those countries.”

That's not the question. The question was would you, yourself, prefer to be abducted and hauled off to a life of chattel slavery over life in Africa at the time. Speaking only for myself, I'd say no. I think Milton said it best when he said, "Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven." I believe any free man worth his salt would agree with that.

75 posted on 05/06/2009 1:02:01 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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