Posted on 05/06/2009 10:35:26 AM PDT by cowboyway
One of the greatest misconceptions of American history is that the Civil War was fought over slavery. Those who subscribe to this belief see President Abraham Lincoln as the benevolent leader who made unimaginable sacrifices in human blood to wipe out America’s greatest sin. While the human sacrifice is indisputable and the sin was monumental, the war’s purpose was not to free blacks from the shackles of bondage. Rather, the Civil War was fought with one purpose in mind: To preserve the Union at all costs. And, to put it in Lincoln’s terms, with no ifs, ands, or buts. You’d better agree with the president, or else.
(Excerpt) Read more at tenthamendmentcenter.com ...
I'm not sidestepping. You're over simplifying.
Let's fast forward 80+ years to Southern secession
Let's do that.
Your blurb from South Carolina's declaration says that the federal governments' "encroachment upon the reserved rights of the states"
The South Carolina secession declaration specifically speaks of constitutional violations, one of which is the Tenth Amendment; states rights, or, "the reserved rights of the states".
No if. Fact.
The fact is that IF Lincoln was so wildly popular he would have gotten 50, 60, maybe even 70% of the popular vote regardless of how many candidates were running.
Your fantasy, you mean. The fact is that Lincoln was popular enough to beat his nearest opponent by 10 percentage points in the popular vote and 108 electoral votes.
But IF you want to do IF's, I say that IF DisHonest Abe had been running by himself, he would have still only gotten 39% of the popular vote. Hell, maybe less.
Your math skills are truly dazzling. </sarcasm>
BTW, I'd rather be associated with Judge Napolitano than you and your ilk any day.
BTW, you're welcome to him.
So, you consider me sub-human but respond to my every post. Do you communicate with other non-human life forms as well?
No. Just you.
The 1980 election was as much about getting rid of Carter as the 2000 election was of purging the Clinton's.
But you're saying that in 1980 Reagan did not have a mandate, right?
And I'll do it too. They turned their backs on their kin and their neighbors and fought for an unjust government that brought ruin to their families and friends.
They were traitors, plain and simple.
I expected no better of you.
“Fine, but what about my two great great great grandfathers who were loyal to the United States, enlisted and fought under its flag in the Civil War, one of them losing a leg?”
Sad, That Countrymen would do such things to each other both under the Term “Freedom”! Funny we blame Him and you blame Us? Many that fought for the Union did so with great respect and honor,as did mine.
“end federalism”
Truthfully Lincoln didn't agree with you either
Lincoln ,
Our States have neither more nor less power than that reserved to them in the Union by the Constitution, no one of them ever having been a State out of the Union . The original ones passed into the Union even before they cast off their British colonial dependence, and the new ones each came into the Union directly from a condition of dependence, excepting Texas; and even Texas, in its temporary independence, was never designated a State. The new ones only took the designation of States on coming into the Union, while that name was first adopted for the old ones in and by the Declaration of Independence . . . . Having never been States, either in substance or in name, outside of the Union, whence this magical omnipotence of “State rights,” asserting a claim of power to lawfully destroy the Union itself? Much is said about the “sovereignty” of the States, but the word even is not in the National Constitution, nor, as is believed, in any of the State constitutions. What is a “sovereignty” in the political sense of the term? Would it be far wrong to define it “a political community without a political superior”? Tested by this, no one of our States, except Texas , ever was a sovereignty. . . . (Special Session Message to Congress, July 4, 1861)
“Am I supposed to allow them to be dishonored?”
No, Hopefully we are all on the Right side of History next time! America is just a vote away from becoming a complete Socialist State and with any luck- Foes will be friends and Obama will get deported!
Of the Topic- Isn't it funny how 1960’s pipe smoking,flag burners are now running this Country?
* You enjoy living in filth.
* The only kind of grass you've seen is the kind you smoke.
* You prefer Bruce Springsteen to Bocephus.
* The thought of eating scrapple doesn't turn your stomach.
* You talk real fast and charm real slow.
* You think smog is a sky color.
* You think all cars are yellow and have a light on top.
* You think barbecue is a verb, not a noun.
* Your momma spends more time in hockey locker rooms than your father's bedroom.
* You think okra is a talk show host.
* You can be surrounded by crime and “didn't see a thing!!”
* You didn't know chickens laid eggs and cows produced milk.
* You waste large amounts of money on a date, when all you had to do was ask.
* You think Skoal is a form of punishment.
* You think barbecue is a verb meaning “to cook outside.”
* You think Heinz Ketchup is SPICY!
* You don't have any problems pronouncing “Worcestershire sauce” correctly.
* For breakfast, you would prefer potatoes Au gratin to grits.
* You don't know what a moon pie is.
* You've never had grain alcohol.
* You've never, ever, eaten okra.
* You eat fried chicken with a knife and fork.
* You've never seen a live chicken, and the only cows you've seen are on road trips.
* You have no idea what a polecat is.
* You don't see anything wrong with putting a sweater on a poodle.
* You don't have bangs.
* You would rather vacation at Martha's Vineyard than Six Flags.
* More than two generations of your family have been kicked out of the same prep school in Connecticut.
* You would rather have your son become a lawyer than grow up to get his own TV fishing show.
* Instead of referring to two or more people as “y'all,” you call them “you guys,” even if both of them are women.
* You don't think Howard Stern has an accent.
* You have never planned your summer vacation around a gun-and-knife show.
* You think more money should go to important scientific research at your university than to pay the salary of the head football coach.
* You don't have at least one can of WD-40 somewhere around the house.
* The last time you smiled was when you prevented someone from getting on an on-ramp on the highway.
* You don't have any hats in your closet that advertise feed stores.
* The farthest south you've ever been is the perfume counter at Neiman Marcus.
* You call binoculars opera glasses.
* You can't spit out the car window without pulling over to the side of the road and stopping.
* You would never wear pink or an applique sweatshirt.
* You don't know what applique is.
* You don't know anyone with at least two first names (i.e., Joe Bob, Faye Ellen, Billy Ray, Mary Jo, Bubba Dean)
* You don't have doilies, and you certainly don't know how to make one.
* You've never been to a craft show.
* You get freaked out when people on the subway talk to you.
* You can't do your laundry without quarters.
* None of your fur coats are homemade.
Bubba Ho-Tep, Is that your view?
Would the Both of you fight against someone with the same enthusiasm that Said-A State couldn't under any circumstances withdraw?
Seriously
Yes.
Would the Both of you fight against someone with the same enthusiasm that Said-A State couldn't under any circumstances withdraw?
You've got to give me more details here. What is the scenario you're imagining, that a state gets the permission of congress to secede, but the administration calls out the troops anyway?
http://www.alphadictionary.com/articles/yankeetest.html
Are you a Rebel or Yankee
This is more telling
How do you pronounce Aunt?
* Like the word want
* Like the word ant
* Like the word caught
* Like ain’t
Let's Use Idaho's Sister State as a example
If the Supreme Court ruled against the interest of the State of Montana would they be Free to go? With only consent of only a few States?
These are the other States that defended individual Rights
http://www.nraila.org/heller/proamicusbriefs/07-290_amicus_texas.pdf
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56914
“A collective rights decision in [the pending court case] Heller would not only violate Montana's contract for statehood, but also Montana's customs, culture and heritage. We hope the Supreme Court will recognize and credit the contract argument, an argument unmentioned in any of the briefs submitted in the Heller case,” said Gary Marbut, the president of the Montana Shooting Sports Association.
The Montana contract is archived as Article I of the Montana Constitution. At the time the then-territory's “Compact with the United States” was agreed to by Congress, the Montana Constitution included the “right of ‘any person’ to bear arms,”
Then the answer is no. Montana was admitted to the union with the vote of the majority of states. It can't leave with only a few. It's options are to accept the decision of the court, as they agreed when they asked to be admitted to the union, to gather support for a constitutional amendment that would negate the court's decision, to find more support in congress for their departure from the union, or rebellion.
That is the difference between us
I'd say the Federal Government and it's Court have violated the “compact”! When they entered the Union they did so with the understanding
To quote
“The state was admitted to the union in 1889 under President Benjamin Harrison and he approved the state constitution proposal including the right to bear arms, the officials said.
Any other determination, they said, would “offend” the Compact, officials said.
“[That] language … simply cannot be respun to somehow mean a right of state government,” they said.”
Bubba,
With the Understanding that the Constitution would be followed>
“It's options are to accept the decision of the court, as they agreed when they asked to be admitted to the union, to gather support for a constitutional amendment that would negate the court's decision, to find more support in congress for their departure from the union, or rebellion.”
They never agreed to this “living document” liberal nonsense! I would pick rebellion and send an invite to You and N-S. Montana may not have a Standing Army but you'd be amazed what a few Rednecks with Squirrel guns can do!
Yes, it does perplex. The only way I could see doing it would be if I were drafted. I could not/would not volunteer to fight against any state(s) that wanted autonomy, regardless of their reason, and even if I thought the it was for the wrong reason. It a southern thing, if you have to force it, it aint't no good.
And the agreed-upon mechanism for determining what does and doesn't follow the Constitution is the Supreme Court. That's part of the understanding. It's written down. Did you guys not read as far as Article III?
I would pick rebellion and send an invite to You and N-S. Montana may not have a Standing Army but you'd be amazed what a few Rednecks with Squirrel guns can do!
By all means, go for it. You're just not allowed to whine about it for another century and a half when it doesn't go your way.
So what’s your opinion of the clause of the Constitution that allows insurrections to be suppressed?
If those states turn to armed conflict to further their aims then your damned right I will. Seriously.
Like the word ant.
I also pronounce root like it rhymes with foot. What's that make me?
Please, don't set them on a tee, it's way to easy that way.
I can't understand your reasoning, it is alien to me. I guess I will never understand. Do you really think the south was a credible threat militarily? It could not hope to conquer the North, and it never intended to.
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