But Lincoln was the death of our Republic, isn't that what all you Southron types believe? His actions led to the end of the government our founders created for us, isn't that what you all say? He was a tyrant, and big government supporter, blah, blah, blah.
The only exception might be that (as a warning to the anti-Confederacy folks) I sometimes note that Lincoln could easily be declared a non-person and purged from the American heroes list if the same standards were applied to him that are applied to the Confederates.
For example? And I'm really interested in hearing what you have to say on this.
Other than his opposition to slavery (though he was willing tolerate its presence to preserve the union) he was a pretty non-PC fellow.
Under what standards? By the standards of today? I'd be hard pressed to think of any American leader of the 18th and 19th century who wouldn't come off non-PC under those conditions. But if you judge Lincoln by the standards of his era then I suggest he comes off pretty well by comparison with his peers.
I mainly participate in these debates to defend our rights to honor our ancestors and our regional heritage, and to challenge the idiotic and destructive campaign to demonize the Confederacy, its leaders, and its soldiers. Because unless this is stopped, it's going to lead to some very bad national consequences later.
And I will state for the record, as I have in the past, that I honestly don't care if you want to honor your ancestors or your heritage. I think you should be free to honor them in your way. You want a confederate memorial day? Have at it. I don't live in the South so I don't get to say what holidays you celebrate. You want to fly your confederate flag? More power to you. Feel free to do it in peace and without any interference or comment from me. You want to honor your Southern heroes? Knock yourself out.
But you have your resons for being on these threads and I have mine. And my reason is that for oh so many of your Southron compatriots, celebrating your heroes and your heritage requires that you trash mine.
Learn to spell.
But Lincoln was the death of our Republic, isn't that what all you Southron types believe?
Some do, some don't. I don't recall ever saying that, though I have said that the 14th Amendment was criminally irresponsible and has pretty much gutted the Constitution, though that may not have been the intention.
As for Lincoln's non-PC statements, here are a couple:
"What I would most desire would be the separation of the white and black races." (Spoken at Springfield, Illinois on July 17th, 1858; from Abraham Lincoln: Complete Works, 1894, Vol. 1, page 273).
"Why should the people of your race be colonized, and where? Why should they leave this country? This is, perhaps, the first question for proper consideration. You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong I need not discuss, but this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both, as I think your race suffer very greatly, many of them by living among us, while ours suffer from your presence. In a word, we suffer on each side. If this be admitted, it affords a reason at least why we should be separated. It is better for both, therefore, to be separated." (Spoken at the White House to a group of black community leaders, August 14th, 1862, from Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Vol 5, page 371).
And I didn't even include some of the things he said during the Lincoln-Douglas debates, where he opposed negro voting, negroes on juries, intermarriage, negro social equality, and many other things.
We even had a thread here at FR a while back over an article suggesting Lincoln was a racist. A black historian sorta, kinda got him off the hook by noting that late in life he thought it might be okay for "intelligent negroes" to be allowed to vote. But the bottom line is he didn't hold modern PC racial views. Again, I'm not denouncing him, his views were the common views of that era. But you can't throw a hissy fit over the Confederacy and then brush off Washington's slave ownership and Lincoln's objection to racial equality as being merely the product of their day. Why do some people get the Animal Farm exemption while others don't?
The left likes Animal Farm exemptions, but only of their own making. That means it's okay to have a blacks-only dorm but not a whites-only dorm. It doesn't mean one old dead white dude can be a "racist" and another old dead white dude can't. That won't fly once the multicult has grown strong enough to wipe out all white heroes of the past (other than feminists, homosexuals, and commies, of course).
I'm just pointing out that when you start down this road of declaring Confederate supporters to be evil incarnate for having non-PC racial attitudes, then you're setting yourself up to either be a hypocrite or to have to purge Lincoln as well. Saying he was a tad better because he didn't like slavery ain't gonna fly. It doesn't fly with me and it surely won't fly when the SPLC or La Raza decide the time has come to move against Honest Abe.
You're absolutely correct that virtually no one from the 18th or 19th centuries could pass today's Political Correctness test. THAT'S BEEN MY POINT ALL ALONG. When people celebrate their heritage by displaying a Rebel Flag and honoring Confederate leaders or soldiers, and the response is to try to shut them down and to demonize them for honoring "racists" and so forth, then you're setting a horrendous precedent. You'll either have to tie yourself in knots trying to make the case that slaveowner Stonewall Jackson was evil but slaveowner George Washington wasn't all that bad. He only owned slaves because he was a product of his time, not evil evil evil like Stonewall Jackson. You'll have to explain why Jefferson Davis was wicked and beneath contempt for opposing racial equality while Lincoln was merely a man of his era for opposing it. If you can't do that (and you can't) then you'll have to agree that Lincoln and Washington and all the others are simply no damn good. They need to be replaced as American heroes by Harvey Milk, Malcolm X, and Cesar Chavez.