Posted on 11/15/2008 6:48:02 PM PST by palmer
It's apparent that a combination of fervent believers and a small number of psychopaths and/or infiltrators have dominated the birth certificate discussion. The early evidence was in their favor and everyone should have been skeptical of the low res images on Kos, smears and politifact. The new evidence is not and is not being addressed objectively.
But photo #5 (and some of the others) is a genuine photograph of an artifact. It was not created in photoshop. That doesn't mean photoshop was not involved. A plausible set of steps is
1. Scan a real COLB including the border
2. Import into photoshop and change the text to Obama's text
3. Print the result onto the cross hatched paper (could be forged separately)
4. Obtain a embossing seal and apply it to the printout 5. Fold it as if it came from an envelope and display it to the factcheck photographer.
Another plausible scenario is someone in the Hawaii office did all the forging but on the official equipment and using the official seal. Another possibility is someone stole a seal and sold it to a forger. It is certainly possible for a forger to make a seal using the right equipment (probably a laser etcher).
The Kenya trip meme seemed to turn into an established fact in early July when proposed by null and void and properly ridiculed. Even into November null and void can only repeat her hypothesis (a honeymoon) apparently unwilling or unable to embellish it further.
Polarik surrounds himself with a number of true believers and useful idiots. The useful idiots are the ones who validate or praise his analysis while obviously not knowing anything about it. The true believers have convinced themselves that Obama was not born in Honolulu and are unable to evaluate the evidence objectively.
In their favor, the true believers have established that Obama has potential Indonesian citizenship (courtesy of Soetoro) as well as potential Kenyan citizenship (courtesy of Obama Sr). These are true regardless of where Obama was born. For the former the Kenyan citizenship would have to be activated by Obama. For the latter, Soetoro would have had to apply to make Obama an Indonesian citizen, it does not happen automatically via adoption.
The bottom line for Polarik is he has yet to address the certificate linked above. He has promised to do this for weeks now and is instead disseminating and repeating his various diatribes against Obama. My guess based on his past behavior is that he will release a rehash of the evidence against the old scan (Kos, smears, politifact) with a bit of new verbiage against the factcheck photos. He will properly point out some oddities in some of the photos while ignoring the obvious salient features in the decent photos such as number 5.
He and I have already argued about the seal (embossing) in number 5 and he claims it is a perfect circle (therefore forged). I showed that it wasn't http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq51/palmer2/circle.jpg and he replied with a very similar result except he used some edge detection first. He obviously just fools with some tools, but doesn't obtain any useful results. When it comes to image analysis he is a dabbler, not an expert.
With cover from his defenders he establishes a "sensitive" personality claiming that he is being ruthlessly attacked. He says that as a result he will stop posting on the certificate issue when he is done with his final writeup. I don't know if that's a real sensitivity or faked, but even if it is faked there are thousands more that will step into his shoes if he disappears.
That thread and others contain useful nuggets about other Obama problems. There are alternative threads that speak to real evidence although some of those get beaten down by the Polarik army. Polarik's followers also use Freepmail to spread gossip about posters like myself and allegedly (according to them) posted about me on another forum.
That is all good. The more publicity I get on this particular issue, the better. But I remain concerned that FreeRepublic will have the appearance of a conspiracy site because only a rather intensive conspiracy could produce the evidence photographed by Factcheck.
I am also concerned that Factcheck and others might be deliberately planting poor quality evidence in an attempt to hook in the Polariks of the world and their followers. That would not necessarily require a conspiracy although I admit it has the flavor of one. It is to the liberal opposition's benefit to keep as many people on false trails as possible not just to waste their time but to portray them as unhinged. That result was detrimental in the last election and will be detrimental in 2010 and 2012.
IMO of course.
Well I did it for you.
That's not a defense against what I posted.
Yes, it does. Except, the good guys won that battle and the evil left and their Minion Rather had to slink off for another 4 years.
thanks, LucyT did too.
It’s not a matter of satisfying “most people’s curiosity,” it’s a matter of dealing with the many distortions and secrets about Obama’s past.
Obama has been less than forthcoming about his past. His stories have been inconsistent and in some cases shown to be outright lies.
His refusal to provide basic documentation and his determination to keep his birth certificate and other records under seal is disturbing.
Right. I don't have to like factcheck to evaluate what they have posted. I am trying to force their critics here to be more critical (in the sense of precision) and not just wave around the low-res scans from Kos and smears.
Your opinion is logical on one level. But we know with a high degree of certainty the justices are not of one mind.
And this issue is very simple to address—not anything nuanced that I am aware of. So it would be difficult to hide a pro-Obama decision behind fancy language.
I thought this was all silly and didn't take it seriously, until, he pulled that suspicious stunt. He didn't even take his wife and kids!!! Now, he hasn't been to the funeral or memorial!!! What kind of man is he?
Well, Factcheck is an Annenberg site, they selected Bill Ayers to head one of their efforts, that should enlighten you as to their "objectivity". The Kenya evidence is actually pretty enlightening, if examined outside of pro-Obama media bias. There is concrete evidence that the grandmother, a brother, and a sister all claim that he was actually born in Mombassa Kenya after the airlines refused to let Stanley Ann Dunham fly back to Hawaii due to her late-term pregancy. If you read the judge's decision regarding Berg's lower court case you'll see that the judge did not refute a single piece of his evidence or any of his accusations, but decided solely on more esoteric (and non-sensical) "rationalizations". Something is wrong, very wrong, about his birth certificate, otherwise he would have just shown us the darn thing.
Agree, but dealing with them has to start from the basis of the evidence at hand. No matter how biased or clueless factcheck is, those photos are of a real artifact created in a particular manner. The manner in which they were created is not simply "photoshop" or "forgery" but requires the steps I outlined in my post. After understanding those steps some plausible forgery scenarios can be postulated.
Has there been ANYTHING you can think of even mildly controversial where Obama has told the truth or come completely clean??
Anything?
Then it should be a simple matter for you to name one who actually has some solid proof. There are a bunch of folks posting here that 'know' Obama is not a natural born citizen, but that and $1 will get you a hot apple pie at Mickey D's.
When did she go there and why?
What? Did Polarik hang up on you?
Palmer, I had respect for you and your displeasure about this topic. No longer. You are petty.
Regards,
JJ
Spread the wealth.
Really? Do you have a citation for that requirement?
Grief. Obama couldn’t even get access to low level security information, if he wasn’t “elected”. We have some seriously flawed security and policies at the Federal level. Can you sense me shaking my head back and forth?
“It’s apparent that a combination of fervent believers and a small number of psychopaths and/or infiltrators have dominated the birth certificate discussion.”
You shore have a way wit words, youse must be one of them pro-fessional writers. Is youse a believer or a psychopath. Maybe one of them psychopaths will get due consideration, and an answer to my question. If the online copy is an accurate facsimile of Obama’s COB why can’t a copy of the original be released.
But I managed to get in 100+ posts before the circuses. That's good enough for me.
Often, the coverup turns out to be worse than the actual crime, and this one could be a real doosie.
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