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To: Spiff
You might say, as others have, that Giuliani does not support Gay Marriage. It is obvious that he does because, among other things, he vocally opposed the Marriage Amendment

There were a lot of folks here on FR who opposed the Marriage Amendment as well, not because they favor gay marriage, but because they do not believe such a question should be federalized and placed into the U.S. Constitution. Are you accusing all those Freepers who opposed the Marriage Amendment for that reason as being pro-gay marriage? And this issue, as well, as others (gun control, abortion, as two examples) Giuliani does not believe should be federal issues, but determined by the states....a solid conservative perspective.

144 posted on 01/29/2007 3:04:51 PM PST by My2Cents ("I support the right-ward most candidate who has a legitimate chance to win." -- W.F. Buckley)
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To: My2Cents; NapkinUser; TommyDale; EternalVigilance; dirtboy
There were a lot of folks here on FR who opposed the Marriage Amendment as well, not because they favor gay marriage, but because they do not believe such a question should be federalized and placed into the U.S. Constitution. Are you accusing all those Freepers who opposed the Marriage Amendment for that reason as being pro-gay marriage? And this issue, as well, as others (gun control, abortion, as two examples) Giuliani does not believe should be federal issues, but determined by the states....a solid conservative perspective.

Yes, if you oppose the Marriage Amendment, then you supported gay marriage - FReeper or not. And the argument that it should not be a federal issue is specious. The intent of the Marriage Amendment was to keep it from becoming a federal issue when some federal judge interpreted the U.S Constitution to require states to recognize gay marriage against their will. The amendment ratification process is entirely constitutional and consistent with federalism and it empowers the states to decide for themselves in the face of judicial tyranny.

Arguing that Giuliani opposed the Marriage Amendment based upon federal issues is fallacious. I've not read anywhere where he states that his opposition was based upon an issue of federalism. All he said was that he questioned whether it was a good campaign issue for someone to run on and he questioned the timing of making it an election issue. You seem to want to ignore Giuliani's close association with and support for a number of radical gay organizations and that he was a champion of their causes.

Many here and elsewhere have defended Giuliani's "pro-choice" views, rationalizing that they are also based on abortion not being a federal issue, but a state issue. Again, Giuliani has not made that argument. In fact, in the case of a Partial Birth Abortion ban in his State of New York, he opposed that also [Disgusting.] when it had nothing to do with the federal government. You seem to also want to ignore Giuliani's close association with and support for militantly pro-abortion organizations and that he was a champion for their causes. In fact, NARAL awarded him with a "Champion of Choice" award.

Further, on the abortion issue, Giuliani does not support overturning Roe v. Wade. If he thinks issues such as abortion should be decided by the states, as you claimed, then he should support overturning Roe v. Wade and returning the abortion issue back to the states. Again, this is evidence that your contention that Giuliani's views are based upon certain issues being state issues, and not federal issues, is demonstrated to be a fallacy.

“Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.” - Winston Churchill

198 posted on 01/29/2007 3:47:30 PM PST by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")
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