[Howlin]

Roses, you should put that up as its own thread.

[roses of sharon]

I'm embarrassed to say I have never done my own thread, I have never taken the time to learn. (maybe over Christmas break, lol), also I haven't a clue what is "legal" to post.

Anyway, after reading this from Bennett, we shouldn't feel so lonely in our disgust in the surrender group, I thought we were the only ones!