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Save America with the ‘Fair Tax Act’
The Courier ^ | August 31,2006 | Gordon Bishop

Posted on 09/03/2006 5:18:40 AM PDT by Man50D

Abolish the federal income tax!

No more taxes on savings and investments!

A "Fair Tax" can completely fund the federal government, Social Security and Medicare!

You control how much you spend!

So what are we waiting for?

You, the taxpayers of America burdened with an income tax that is costly, wasteful and sinking America into inevitable bankruptcy. All current forms of federal taxation would end! You would keep 100 percent of your paycheck. You control how you spend your paycheck. It's your money. You make the decisions as to how you want to spend your money.

The Fair Tax would create more jobs and give the USA a level playing field when selling overseas. United States Senator John Linder (R-Georgia) is sponsoring the "Fair Tax Act of 2005." If enacted by Congress, it would accomplish all of the above. Simple. Easy. And affordable.

It's the best way to downsize government without disrupting the economy.

To join the "Fair Tax" movement in America, just sign the "Economic Freedom & Fairness" Petition supporting forward-thinking solutions. Go to www.grassfire.net and liberate the working class of taxpayers. Grassfire is trying to give the working class the same kind of freedom America's founders gave to those who joined the American Revolution in 1776 with the "Declaration of Independence." We won the Revolutionary War, but have lost our country since the 16th Amendment (income tax) became "Law" in 1913.

(Excerpt) Read more at bayshorenews.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: dontdrinkthekoolaid; fraudtax; redherring; scam
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To: proudofthesouth
At least the Flat Tax has an excellent history, but the fairtaxers insist on drowning out any and all information and or debate on it.

What post #20 doesn't realize is our current income tax began as a flat tax. The first tax ranged from merely 1% on the first $20,000 of taxable income and was only 7% on incomes above $500,000. When the income tax was passed in 1913 approximately only two percent of the population, counting both taxpayers and their dependents, was required to file returns. Today, more than 80% of the population is under the income tax and the oppressive tax code has expanded to 60,000+ pages. The Fair Tax provides people the freedom the Flat tax fails to provide because it abolishes the IRS.

Fair Taxers have been debating the Flat Tax for a considerable time. The problem for Flat Tax proponents is there are many more Fair Tax supporters consequently there will be more people speaking in favor of the Fair Tax. Their is very little support for the Flat tax as evident by the following facts:

H.R.25/S.25 have more cosponsors than the four Flat Tax related bills combined:

Freedom Flat Tax Act (H.R.1040) 5 Cosponsors
Fair Flat Tax Act of 2005(S.1927) No cosponsors
Fair Flat Tax Act of 2006 (H.R.5176) No cosponsors
Flat-Tax Act of 2005 (S.812) No cosponsors.
41 posted on 09/03/2006 7:25:10 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax , you earn it , you keep it!)
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To: Normal4me
"The product already has taxes built into it and I am then charged an additional (income tax) on the money I need to purchase the product?"

If your employer took the exact amount of federal income tax out of your paycheck every two weeks, then you wouldn't "owe" anything on April 15th. So, to you, you're not "paying" any income tax today.

Under the Fair Tax, those taxes and others are retained by the manufacturers then used to reduce the cost of products by 30%, then the 30% Fair Tax is added. That's the theory, anyways.

"Why would people buy something new if they could save 30% by buying something used (such as a vehicle)?"

Bingo! Give the man a prize. Even worse, imports (like your Made in Japan HDTV) will RISE 30% because they have no hidden USA taxes in them to pull out.

42 posted on 09/03/2006 7:34:25 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Normal4me

Another plus to the Fairtax system that I have never seen discussed is that the "underground" economy will start paying its "fair share". At least in California and Arizona, where I am familiar, there are bazillions of dollars paid to laborers, construction workers, lawyers, etc that work "under the counter" and would have to pay taxes under Fairtax.

I think that if Fairtax were enacted, the money would flood the Treasury, and the problem would be to lower the taxable percent!


43 posted on 09/03/2006 7:39:35 AM PDT by Ex-Democrat Dean
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To: Principled

There is no "bill" there is however several working groups working on the new proposal - which makes the corrections and additions cited by the president's tax reform panel.


44 posted on 09/03/2006 7:43:02 AM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: Ex-Democrat Dean
I think that if Fairtax were enacted, the money would flood the Treasury, and the problem would be to lower the taxable percent!


45 posted on 09/03/2006 7:43:11 AM PDT by Mojave
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To: Normal4me
The product already has taxes built into it and I am then charged an additional (income tax) on the money I need to purchase the product?

The product already has taxes (employer payroll taxes, any income taxes) and TAX COSTS in it. The anti-nrst folks have stipulated a 9% tax costs component in retail prices of domestically mfg items. That's why you see everyone doing analyses that include a reduction in prices of 9% before the nrst is added.

The MARGINAL rate of the nrst is 23% ti or 29.87% te. The amounts are the same. Here's how they can be illustrated...

If you earn $100 and keep $77 after taxes, what is your tax rate?
Some would say 23% (23/100). Others would say 29.87% (23/77).

Either way, it's obviously the same amount.

"Used" in hr 25 means "already been taxed". The idea is to tax things once, and only once. A problem I see with the nrst is that earnings that have already been taxed (and saved) would be taxed again when spent. That violates the fundamental purpose of the bill - so I expect it to change. Nevertheless, it has been shown and can be shown again and again that irrespective of particulars, all legal participants in today's income/payroll tax system will have an increase in purchasing power under the nrst....even with the taxing savings problem. Would you rather pay income/payroll taxes on your savings or your nrst effective rate? BTW it's easy to calculate (try pafairtax.org).

Note that i'm saying ALL LEGAL PARTICPANTS IN TODAY'S INCOME/PAYROLL TAX SYSTEM - not everyone - will have increased purchasing power under the nrst. Criminals/illegals/current tax cheats will have to begin paying 100% of their tax burden.

Anti-nrst people will try to have you "forget" that under any income tax, your earnings are reduced before you buy something. They simply omit this from their anaylsis. Why? Who knows.

Today, I have to earn $133 to buy a $100 item.

Under the nrst, the price falls from $100 to $91. And my nrst effective rate is 17%. So I'd need to earn $109 to buy the item under the nrst. The nrst changes the timing of paying tax to before you spend to when you spend.

The increase in purchasing power comes from a 9% reduction in prices by eliminating the income tax costs from prices and lower rates due to an increase in the tax base. BTW, it has nearly the same tax base as the flat income tax.

46 posted on 09/03/2006 7:44:48 AM PDT by Principled
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To: proudofthesouth
There are many differences. Here are two major differences:
1. The Fair Tax will abolish the IRS. The Flat Tax will keep the IRS.
2. The Fair Tax will shift taxes from income to consumption by abolishing all federal income taxes and taxing purchases. Consequently you receive 100% of your paycheck. The Flat Tax will maintain the income tax.

The lower middle class will benefit because the prebate will reimburse people for the taxes paid on essentials up to the poverty level. I suggest you visit the following three sites for more information on the Fair Tax
Americans For Fair Taxation
Fair Tax FAQ's
The Fair Tax Act(H.R.25/S.25)
47 posted on 09/03/2006 7:48:04 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax , you earn it , you keep it!)
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To: xcamel
There is no "bill"...

I see. I didn't think there was.

If you would ping me when there is one, I'd appreciate it. After it's written, we can see if it is going to address the myriad problems the other flat tax proposals have.... and I presume those problems are the reason for a complete lack of support of previous flat taxes.

Anyway, if there comes a flat tax bill that eliminates payroll taxes on employee and employer, eliminates business income taxes of any kind, is border adjusted, and has some mechanism to make illegals pay, let me know. I'd like to see it.

48 posted on 09/03/2006 7:48:26 AM PDT by Principled
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To: proudofthesouth
As I said, 6 states, and 86 countries are very happy with it. There is no "fair tax", never been a "fair tax", and god forbid it ever becomes law, it most definitely wont be a "fair tax".

The fact we "had a flat tax" 80 odd years ago, is a rhetorical "dog that won't hunt", and simply proves we were way ahead of our time, but allowed the "gooberment" to corrupt it beyond insanity. That would most likely not be the case today.

49 posted on 09/03/2006 7:51:17 AM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: xcamel
There is no "bill" there is however several working groups working on the new proposal - which makes the corrections and additions cited by the president's tax reform panel.

The president's tax reform panel rejected the NRST monthly entitlement check proposal, didn't they?

50 posted on 09/03/2006 7:51:47 AM PDT by Mojave
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To: Mojave

They basically trashed the whole idea.


51 posted on 09/03/2006 7:53:31 AM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: navyguy
Out of 16,000 accredited economists, about 10 have endorsed the FT.

Post #23 couldn't be more wrong with this statement.The number of economists who endorse The Fair Tax can be found a this link:

http://fairtax.org/pdfs/Open_Letter_President_Endorsements.pdf

As you can see the number of economists who endorse The Fair Tax is much larger than post #23 stated.
52 posted on 09/03/2006 7:56:49 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax , you earn it , you keep it!)
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To: Man50D
Economics: The only profession where you can be wrong more often than the weatherman, and still get paid.
53 posted on 09/03/2006 7:59:31 AM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: xcamel

http://fairtaxcalculator.org/

does the flat tax have a similar mechanism?


54 posted on 09/03/2006 8:12:15 AM PDT by Principled
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To: Principled
No, but this might help people after they go there...

http://www.fhu.com/meditation.html

55 posted on 09/03/2006 8:22:38 AM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: xcamel
Is there no way to examine what may happen under the flat tax? Are you asking people to believe in something that has no information available?

In your flat tax, what's the rate of income tax on individuals? On business? What's the payroll tax rate on business? Iindividuals? What are deductions/exemptions (if any?).

The previous bill had income tax of 17% plus 7.65 payroll tax for emploees AND for business. Along with that, all business taxes would increase the cost of goods to the consumer and/or reduce their wages.... an this tax would be hidden, like today.

C'mon, give us something to look at... or is this in your imagination? With nothing new, this is old stuff. Nobody wants it except a few politicians (four, IIRC - lol).

I'd like to look at a reasonable flat tax - but there has yet to be one. That's why the lack of any support whatsoever. And that's one of the reasons no bill is anywhere.

What kind of snake oil are you pushing? "Buy my product - no, I won't tell you anything about it... but buy it!"

riiiiiiight.....

56 posted on 09/03/2006 8:38:06 AM PDT by Principled
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To: navyguy
Both Florida and Texas already use the Fair Tax model for their own state taxes. By your definition the legislatures of Texas and Florida are 'cultists'.

Not at all. There is no prebate like the fairtax. There is no tax on services like the fairtax. They don't tax federal and state expenditures like the fairtax. They certainly don't add a 30% tax like the fairtax. They don't tax the sale of new homes like the fairtax. Hardly the model for Florida and Texas. A tax like this has never been done like this, and countries who have tried a high sales tax rate have never been successful.

57 posted on 09/03/2006 8:45:10 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: xcamel

What errors are made on this website?

http://fairtaxcalculator.org/

C'mon - what you got? Anything? Namecall and avoid the website because you can find nothing wrong with it?

If there's something wrong, share it with us....or can you not find anything wrong with it? ...snicker..


58 posted on 09/03/2006 8:47:58 AM PDT by Principled
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To: navyguy
Right.

As you've seen by the replies to your post there are many cultists on the anti fair tax side:

The municipal bond cultists.

The life insurance cultists.

The tax-deferred annuity cultists.

The IRS cultists.

The tax shelter cultists.

Etc.

I like my cult just fine. My fair tax "cult" wins hands down in every pole, every straw vote. My "cult" has at least 700,000 petition members from every walk of life, from every state.

59 posted on 09/03/2006 8:48:56 AM PDT by groanup (fairtax.org)
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To: Principled

Please point to the "namecalling" on this thread, everybody seems to have missed it.


60 posted on 09/03/2006 9:09:49 AM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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