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To: Heyworth

>>>Lincoln's positon is consistent, whatever Douglas tries to convince the crowd: blacks were equal to whites not socially, not mentally, not physically, not economically, not etceterally. But they were supposed to be equal under the law, endowed with the same unalienable rights as a white man. Do we look at this today and say that he's a racist? Yes.<<<

Well, you at least admit he was a racist (I know that was hard for you to do). He was not only a racist, but he preferred white supremacy, as in this statement:

"I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

In other words, Lincoln would have been a good candidate for the Klan.


419 posted on 09/06/2006 8:00:52 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: PhilipFreneau
He was not only a racist, but he preferred white supremacy, as in this statement...

Robert Lee stated that slavery was the best situation for blacks in the south. Jefferson Davis said that the Negro was fit for slavery and nothing else. Thomas Jackson predicted a war between North and South over slavery and made it clear he'd be on the slavery side. Not a single one of these men believed blacks to be their equal in any way. Not a single one can be quoted as saying that blacks deserved any rights whatsoever. Each and every one was a slave owner for most or all of their adult life. Each believed slavery should continue. Given all that then wouldn't even someone like you have to admit that if Lincoln was a racist then Robert Lee and Jefferson Davis and Thomas Jackson were as bad, if not worse than he was?

424 posted on 09/07/2006 5:21:29 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: PhilipFreneau
Well, you at least admit he was a racist (I know that was hard for you to do). He was not only a racist, but he preferred white supremacy, as in this statement:

No, not particularly hard. I'm actually honest about these things. And the times were the times. Find me a political leader of anywhere near Lincoln's stature who was as advanced racially as we are today. Maybe a couple of the hardcore abolitionists like Sumner, who would never get anywhere near the presidency. It's interesting to consider that most of the damning Lincoln quotes on race come from the Douglas debates, where Douglas is taunting Lincoln about his position on race, trying to play the race card for the white audience. So who's the racist there? And as Frederick Douglass said in his 1876 speech,

I have said that President Lincoln was a white man, and shared the prejudices common to his countrymen towards the colored race. Looking back to his times and to the condition of his country, we are compelled to admit that this unfriendly feeling on his part may be safely set down as one element of his wonderful success in organizing the loyal American people for the tremendous conflict before them, and bringing them safely through that conflict. His great mission was to accomplish two things: first, to save his country from dismemberment and ruin; and, second, to free his country from the great crime of slavery. To do one or the other, or both, he must have the earnest sympathy and the powerful cooperation of his loyal fellow-countrymen. Without this primary and essential condition to success his efforts must have been vain and utterly fruitless. Had he put the abolition of slavery before the salvation of the Union, he would have inevitably driven from him a powerful class of the American people and rendered resistance to rebellion impossible. Viewed from the genuine abolition ground, Mr. Lincoln seemed tardy, cold, dull, and indifferent; but measuring him by the sentiment of his country, a sentiment he was bound as a statesman to consult, he was swift, zealous, radical, and determined.

You say he'd be a good candidate for the Klan, but you ignore the plain truth. Before Lincoln, slavery. After Lincoln, no slavery. Show me a Klansman who'd do that.

427 posted on 09/07/2006 9:22:14 AM PDT by Heyworth
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