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To: YHAOS; cornelis; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; marron
And my point being that Man is his own worst problem. To be sure, there are other features of 'the observer problem', but IMHO Man himself (his will) is the greatest of these.

It seems we live in an age that celebrates radical egoism: the doctrine that holds individual self-interest is the actual motive of all conscious action, and legitimately so. But of course this gives short shrift to the social dimensions of man's life: The "Good" is defined as "what's 'Good' for me," not any wider or more comprehensive Good beyond the self. Lost, or nearly so, is any idea of connection to other human beings, of a sense of duty or responsibility to others. Above all it seems the human person is losing all sense of being a participant in a "great hierarchy of being," which extends beyond the selfish self to society, history, nature -- and above all to God, who is the Author of the hierarchy.

In falling away from the life of the Spirit (greatly enabled by the prestige of positivism and reductive materialism which arguably includes at least the popularized form of neo-Darwinism), man is plunged into disorder, and from there disorders all that he comes into contact with.

But he is "free to do as he likes." And this is how human liberty is defined these days. Truth has no bearing on one's choices; utility is king, and what passes for "success" is the standard of "correctness." All truth is just opinion anyway....

These are suicidal tendencies, IMHO. And so yes, I do agree with you, YHAOS: Man is his own worst problem.

1,674 posted on 08/29/2006 10:57:06 AM PDT by betty boop (Character is destiny. -- Heraclitus)
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To: betty boop
[ All truth is just opinion anyway.... ]

Which is the condensation of the question, "My truth or your truth"...
Another view of the scale of the "observations" of the Observer.. The scale weighs observations.. With no scale the weight is just an opinion.. Without the Bible as a scale humanity is just fishing for concepts, and proudly lying about their size.. As Neils Bohrs "implys", even the reciprocal of a truth is a truth.. Its possible that the whole unvarnished truth of any matter is too much for one man to contain.. meaning we need each other to even approach understanding a portion of the truth, any truth..

Would make the metaphor of the "Body of Christ" even deeper in its concept.. meaning it takes us all to understand the truth, any truth.. It might take a corporate structure to contain the truth, any truth.. i.e. the truth MUST be shared corporately to even approach it.. (spirits Merging <- BOW)

1,675 posted on 08/29/2006 11:23:12 AM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole.)
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To: betty boop; cornelis; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; marron
"It seems we live in an age that celebrates radical egoism: the doctrine that holds individual self-interest is the actual motive of all conscious action . . . "

A self-interest, devoid of rationality and lacking any sense of conscious, purposeful direction, would be nothing if not a disaster. Man reduced to a state of nature without the protection of society.

"Man was destined for society. His morality, therefore, was to be formed to this object. He was endowed with a sense of right and wrong, merely relative to this.

"This sense is as much a part of his nature, as the sense of hearing, seeing, feeling; it is the true foundation of morality, and not the truth, &c., as fanciful writers have imagined. The moral sense, or conscience, is as much a part of man as his leg or arm. It is given to all human beings in a stronger or weaker degree, as force of members is given them in a greater or less degree. It may be strengthened by exercise, as may any particular limb of the body. This sense is submitted, indeed, in some degree, to the guidance of reason; but it is a small stock which is required for this: even a less one than what we call common sense."

. . . . . Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787. (The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, ME, Vol 5, pg 257)

"Lost, or nearly so, is any idea of connection to other human beings, of a sense of duty or responsibility"

Recall the rape of Nanjing or the bombing of Guernica.

"But he is "free to do as he likes." And this is how human liberty is defined these days. Truth has no bearing on one's choices; utility is king, and what passes for "success" is the standard of "correctness." All truth is just opinion anyway.... "

Yes, but not an evidence of 'free will'; instead an evidence per my observation (in #1668), that if truth is mere opinion we experience great difficulty in retaining the ability to know "How to distinguish liberty from license."

1,679 posted on 08/29/2006 6:52:48 PM PDT by YHAOS
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