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To: celmak
1) Oxygen is a poisonous gas that oxidizes organic and inorganic material, quite lethal to non-evolved species that did not have this protection (Rare Earth, Ward & Brownlee, pg 245)

This is true, with the qualification that very early primitive organisms probably used sulfur and methane chemistries rather than oxygen. The ability to work with oxygen as well evolved later, when there was enough oxygen in the environment to make it a survivable niche. Sulfur chemistries are similar to oxygen chemistries so the pathway is pretty obvious. If you develop enough protections against oxygen chemistries while working in sulfur, oxygen has some clear advantages over its sulfur relative.

2) UVs kills organic material (that’s why I stick my toothbrush in a UV lit box). Without oxygen, there is no ozone.

Life does not require ozone, nor does UV destroy it in many cases. Early organisms were subsurface, and many simple organisms can thrive in environments with incredible levels of ionizing radiation. Humans don't do so well, but then we evolved in an environment with much lower radiation levels thanks to an oxygen atmosphere. Just because some organisms are sensitive to hard UV radiation does not mean that they all are.

3) Water would have immediately destroyed organic molecules through the process of hydrolysis, or “water splitting,” the addition of a water molecule between 2 bonded molecules(2 amino acids in this case), which causes them to split apart (Encyclopedia of Science & Technology, vol. 1, pp 411-12).

Organic macro-molecular structures self-assemble in hydrothermal systems quite readily in the presence of many common mineral formations that catalyze the process (including organic structures that are very similar to primitive cell walls). Plumb a hotspring in Nevada and see for yourself -- the chemistry is very rich and not fully understood.

500 posted on 05/28/2006 3:50:18 PM PDT by tortoise
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To: tortoise; Almagest
"This is true, with the qualification that very early primitive organisms probably used sulfur and methane chemistries rather than oxygen."

"Probably" is the key. Science is keen enough to make a physics formula out of what you are saying the amino acids. The problem is that there are over 2,000 types of amino acids, but only 20 are used in life. Further more, the atoms which make up each amino acid are assembled in 2 basic shapes, known as left-handed and right-handed. They basically mirror each other. Without getting into great detail, simply put, amino acids that make up proteins in living things are 100% left-handed. Right handed amino acids are never found in proteins. In other words ordinary undirected chemistry, as in the hypothetical primordial soup (this is what this has to do with Evolution, Almagest. Forgive the shouting) would produce equal mixtures of left-handed molicules and right-handed molecules, called race-mates (J. Sarfati, Ph.D. Chemistry).

OK, tortoise, since you seem up to what I'm talking about, tell me:

1) What happens with a proteins? functions when race-mates are present?

2) How did your "sulfur and methane chemistries" make the jump to having only left-handed acids?

Please cite scources, as I have.

509 posted on 05/28/2006 7:13:51 PM PDT by celmak
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To: tortoise
Hey tortoise, if Sarfati is not good enouph for you because he believes in God, try this:

L. Pauling, General Chemistry, 3rd edition, p774.

514 posted on 05/28/2006 7:29:00 PM PDT by celmak
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