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To: curiosity
Yes, Jews suffered episodes of persecution in Catholic Europe. You did an admirable job proving it, though I never denied it. What you fail to note is that they also enjoyed long periods of toleration and prosperity in many countries.

Well now, I have to agree that that is admirable in much the same sense that it's admirable that serial killers do not murder every person they see.

Finally, the pictures of Hitler praying and the propaganda posters merely prove that Hitler tried to associate himself publicly with Christianity.

That is utter balderdash, based on carefully not looking at the evidence--a mistake the USArmy intelligence corp did not make in its assessment--much as church apologists would like to wish it so. Look again at the pictures, look at his face. Think about how much time and effort he put into painting religious scenes. Think about the fact that he aspired to the priesthood while quite young. That is not how hypocrisy manifests itself.

Well, that does it for me. I have nothing to add to this conversation. You can have the last word. Nice chatting with you.

Ok, here's my last word. Anyone with two still-functioning neurons to rub together, unless they are desperately trying to avoid seeing it, can tell two things from the available evidence--which I have hardly scratched the surface of--that the catholic church was cheerleading jewish pogroms from the get-go, regardless of the feeble hypocrisy that church clings to, that they didn't actually explicity call for the outright mass murder of jewish communities: they pounded the pulpit for 1400 years about the sub-christian & sub-human nature of jews, they set up laws guaranteed to make them vulnerable, easy targets, they insulted, degraded, and, finally tortured and murdered them--your see-know-evil, acknowledge-yet-deny defense to the contrary notwithstanding. Secondly, to deny the thoroughgoing entwinement between this catholicism, with it's thoroughly embedded anti-jewish tradition, and the everyday workings of Hitler's nazi regime is to wear blinders so tight those neurons we mentioned are being strangled.

Here's what Joseph Ratzinger, our new Pope Benedict XVI, and ex-Hitler youth member, had to say about it:

"...it cannot be denied that a certain insufficient resistance to this atrocity [the Holocaust] on the part of Christians can be explained by an inherited anti-Judaism present in the hearts of not a few Christians."

This new Pope is not exactly a poster-boy for pro-jewish sentiment in the catholic church, but even he has to acknowledge that the catholic presence in Germany was a far cry from being a source of comfort for the Jews.

This poster brings the point home so well, it's worth repeating.

"When you see a cross, remember the gruesome murder of the Jews on Golgotha..."

A front page of the Nazi publication, Der Stuermer.

Headline: "Declaration of the Higher Clergy/So spoke Jesus Christ: You hypocrites who do not see the beam in your own eyes. (See Matthew 7:3-5) Cartoon: depicts a group of Hitler Youth marching forth to drive the forces of evil from the land. The caption under the cartoon reads, "We youth step happily forward facing the sun... With our faith we drive the devil from the land."

For a christian, particularly a catholic, Not to remember and acknowledge this, is to invite it to happen again, over and over and over--as even a facile examination of history affirms with glaring authority.

This was a monumental sin for all time, against basic human decency, and in my opinion, covering your eyes with your rosary and proclaiming "I see nothing, God's church didn't do this", is a woefully inadequate response.

962 posted on 05/14/2006 6:14:57 PM PDT by donh
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To: donh

"This new Pope is not exactly a poster-boy for pro-jewish sentiment."

Why do you say that? Surely you don't think John Paul was anti-semitic or that Vatican II was. What makes you think Benedict doesn't hold the same beliefs? Why would thoughtful Jewish people like Dennis Prager and Michael Medved hold him in such high esteem?


968 posted on 05/14/2006 6:28:48 PM PDT by mjolnir ("All great change in America begins at the dinner table.")
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