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To: curiosity
A few million sephardic jews might beg to disagree.

The expulsion of Jews from Spain is no the same thing as the Spanish inquisition.

Come on now. How precious can you get?--it is, in very many important ways, the very same thing as the spanish inquisition. The connection is intimate. You can't get much more intimate than to torture a jew claiming to be a christian.

Orthodox jews are the original heretics--they deny the divinity of christ, and consider salvation thru christ blasphemy. Are you not aware of this? You are totally out to lunch on this subject.

In Canon Law, a heretic is one who is baptized, professes to be Christian, and denies Catholic doctrine.

And what bread does that butter? The fact is, that a belief is a heresy whether a catholic professes it or not, and the church didn't hold back from mass murdering those who held such notions whether they'd been baptised or not.

A Jew who was never baptized cannot, by definition, be a heretic.

But he can hold heretical notions, and be murdered by christians for it; as a heretic--if need be, the instant they force a baptism upon him. Fat lot of comfort for him to know he's not being murdered as a heretic. I'll grant the distinction, but not the significant value of it.

535 posted on 05/13/2006 12:05:41 AM PDT by donh
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To: donh
Come on now. How precious can you get?--it is, in very many important ways, the very same thing as the spanish inquisition. The connection is intimate.

The Spanish Inquisition did not have the authority to expell Jews.

You can't get much more intimate than to torture a jew claiming to be a christian.

I never denied the Spanish Inquisition persecuted false converts to Christianity. It did not have jurisdiction over Jews who were openly Jewish, and every single thing you posted thus far confirms this.

And what bread does that butter? The fact is, that a belief is a heresy whether a catholic professes it or not, and the church didn't hold back from mass murdering those who held such notions whether they'd been baptised or not.

The only groups the Church (and by this, I mean the authorities in Rome) sanctioned the killing of were baptized Christian heretics. Not that I am defending this practice, but it is a historical fact. There is not a single instance of the Church sanctioning the mass murder of Jews. Not one.

But he can hold heretical notions, and be murdered by christians for it; as a heretic

Nope.

--if need be, the instant they force a baptism upon him.

Forced baptism by Catholics was not sanctioned by the Church. It did happen, but it was the exception, not the rule. Its occurrances are limited to a handful of historical episodes, like the reconquista of Spain and the Prussian crusade by the Teutonic Knights.

Fat lot of comfort for him to know he's not being murdered as a heretic.

The Church never sanctioned mass murder of Jews. There are instances of mobs of Catholics murdereing Jewish villages, but over a thousand year hisotry there are only a handful of episodes. Orthodox Russia is another matter, of course.

BTW, why all this talk about Spain? We got on this topic because you originally claimed Hitler got his ideas about killing Jews from the Church. Last time I checked, Hitler wasn't Spanish. In fact the Jews of Spain were spared during WW2, despite Franco's friendliness with Hitler. Nothing comparable to the Spanish reconquista and inquisition ever occurred in Germany.

If your hypothesis is correct, Spaniards should have been more eager to murder Jews than Germans. That doesn't fit the facts, though.

670 posted on 05/13/2006 11:20:07 AM PDT by curiosity
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