Posted on 05/12/2006 12:13:47 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
So...putting on an earring is sound?
I notice that you still have not provided any evidence to support your claim that evolution was created to "demean" and "stamp out" Christianity. I suppose that this is to be expected, as your claim is false.
The rest of us "evilutionists", who do not profess atheism but are certainly so anyway, by virtue of our belief in TToE.
I've observed this binarism myself. What a shame; the world is full of other datatypes...
As I said, Mein Kampf documents him publicly rejecting the Catholic Church in a solemn vow.
or a bull of Hitler's excommunication from the church?
Aside from the fact that you don't know what a bull is, canon law explicitly states that joining secret societies incurs automatic excommunication.
So yes I do have a piece of paper: the Code of Canon Law.
So...he wore a funny hat at a masonic lodge. Oh, good gracious. How devastating that ex-communication must have been. Could you point out specifically where in Mein Kampf Hitler repudiates his membership in the catholic church, or his christianity in general--I mean to say, where it is actually said--not inferred from your knowledge of arcane canon law.
If you think that the anti-Semitic secret societies of pre-WWI Germany were no more serious or dangerous that the silly playacting of modern American Masonry, then you know little about history.
And there is nothing "arcane" about Canon Law in this instance. It was considered a public act of disaffiliation with the Church to take a Masonic oath.
And so, of course, it doesn't mean butkus back here in the real world.
In the real world it means you're going to burn in hell forever unless you get with the program. There's nothing realer than that.
Hey, have I got an opportunity for you. The Mormon's use a big computer to marry off dead people to each other so they can be saved. To about the same practical effect.
That seems to be the solution you crave. All I need to do is read my catechism to see what actions excommunicate a person. No database software necessary.
You can't excommunicate events, only people who participate in them. Mit brennender Sorge was read aloud in every Catholic pulpit in Germany, letting every Catholic know that being a Nazi was incompatible with Christianity. Unless they couldn't understand German they knew exactly what the Church was teaching.
Oh, and by the way, the Pope wrote that encyclical before there was a final solution. If Germans had listened to the Catholic Church and obeyed its unambiguous teaching, there would have been no Holocaust.
Murder and legal restrictions on who is allowed to have what noble title or military rank are two different things.
You do realize that don't you? Or do you believe that England and Germany were morally equivalent in WWII because Germany murdered 6 million Jews and Great Britain did not allow professing Jews to sit in the House of Lords Spiritual?
Yea, right. Of course. Demonic influence. And don't forget witches and necromancers.
Perhaps you do not believe in the existence of Satan. I do.
That is shallow christian apologist's self-serving b/s, as I have extensively documented on this thread. Volkische/masonic anti-jewish sentiment did not spring up from nowhere--you are pointing to the sympom, not the source.
You've documented nothing. The volkische movement was specifically a counter-Christian movement philosophically based on the atheistic idealism of the German nationalist Fichte. Its proponents combined this atheist idealism with other anti-Christian ideas like "free love", "naturism" (nudism), occultism and nature-worship.
It certainly did not come from nowhere - it came from the anti-Christian, freethinking milieu of the so-called French Enlightenment.
"US Army's evaluation"? LOL!
An artist trying to make a living on artwork is not going to ignore the single largest artistic patron in his city. That's like a graphic designer saying that he is not going to any advertising work at all and that he will just focus on other sources of income/
You can tell just from looking at that painting how he didn't really have his heart in it--can't you?
I can tell from what he actually wrote about his own feelings, behavior and anti-Catholic political activities - as well as from the lackluster quality of the painting - that he was looking for a quick commission and that's about it.
Communist appeals for a dictatorship of the proletariat are also couched in religious language. Bill Clinton's call for a "New Covenant" was also couched in religious language. All politicians exploit religious turns of phrase - especially when they are doing their best to subvert and attack religion.
Where did anti-Jewish sentiment come from? Sad to say for the Germans, but every populist German nationalist movement from the Rhineland uprisings of the post-Henry IV era to the Nazis were based on anti-clerical and anti-Semitic sentiment - an unreasoning hatred of people and institutions perceived as "foreign" - like Jews and the Catholic Church.
And, again, that's my point. Thanks for re-affirming it.
No it speaks directly against your point. Protestants skeptical of Hitler in 1931 were concerned by two possibilities: (a) that he might be a papist or (b) that he might be an atheist radical - so to calm people down and make himself look less radical he circulated a photo of himself visiting a Protestant church.
The Germans of 1933 did not necessarily vote for the radical Hitler they got - they voted for the Hitler which Hitler advertised.
The question is, where did German anti-jewish sentiment come to Hitler from, and why did he find couching his anti-jewish appeal in religeous garb so effective?
German anti-Jewish sentiment came from the radical anti-foreigner mentality that has characterized German nationalism since the time of Tacitus. The Jewish people were the first ethnic minority to become visible in Germany since the Germans had slaughtered the Roman settlers centuries before.
The very first pogroms in Western Europe were committed in Saxony - a region that had resisted conversion to Christianity to the bitter end, which was one of the few corners of Europe with numerous pagans still left practicing their superstition, and a region which saw the first organized violent populist attacks on the Church's hierarchy and doctrines.
It is unsurprising that the least-Christianized region of Europe would be the first to raise violent hands against Christ's kinsmen.
In the same way watching a sport for which you don't know the rules can get boring.
Are serial killers evidence of survival of the fittest?
No. Are they evidence of intelligent design? If so, what does that say about the designer?
Is a parent lying when they substitute the stork for genetalia in the answer to their 6-year-old child's query regarding the origin of their baby brother?
Storkism...Teach The Controversy!
I've read "Mein Kampf" and bios of Hitler, but I don't remember anything about secret societies or oaths. My copy of "Meing Kampf" doesn't have an index, could you tell me which chapter has the secret society stuff? Thanks.
Do you read the Bible much?
Lueger was a prominent figure in the underground volkische occult movement.
I'll see if I can find the passage by page in a standard edition.
Lib replied:Is a parent lying when they substitute the stork for genetalia in the answer to their 6-year-old child's query regarding the origin of their baby brother?
I ask: Why can't God's Words in Genesis 1 simply be accepted at their face value?
For the same reason Bill Clinton did. He was elected into office, and wanted to be "loved".
Why would anyone think that exterminating Jews would make Christians love them. Why would Hitler associate his politics and policies with Christianity? Why would he think these things would cause Christians to love him?
Why did they love him?
It's in the penumbra.
Because if you wish to accept them at literal face value they are falsified by abundant physical evidence and supported by no physical evidence at all. This had been established by creationist geologists and paleontologists prior to the voyage of the Beagle.
As I said, Mein Kampf documents him publicly rejecting the Catholic Church in a solemn vow.
Could you give me the exact quote, if you can't give me the page number? I found the following quotes from "Mein Kampf":
by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."
"The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations for compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient world, but in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting for its own doctrine." Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 1 Chapter 12
"I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal." -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
"This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief."
So...may I take it that this is, um, Oden we are referring to, when Hitler says "Lord"?
If Hitler's anti-semitism comes from embracing the devil, or loony Norse tree-worshipping sects, how do you account for this curious set of facts?:
In conjunction with these undoubtedly Pro-Christian sentiments, Hitler and the Nazi party unequivically showed their animity towards the Germanic heathenry movement. In the 1930s they were heavily suppressed by the Nazis. In 1933, Rudolf von Sebettendorff was arrested and exiled. The Nazis banned works of Odinist writers, for instance Lanz von Liebenfels, Ernst Issberner-Haldane and Reinhold Ebertin. Being a current or former membership of an Odinist organisation disqualified anyone from holding rank or office within the NSDAP. In 1936 the runemaster Friedrich Barnharb Marby, a follower of Guido von List, was arrested and sent to a concentration camp at Flossenberg.
..........
Mit brennender Sorge was read aloud in every Catholic pulpit in Germany, letting every Catholic know that being a Nazi was incompatible with Christianity. Unless they couldn't understand German they knew exactly what the Church was teaching.
Well, now, following that, I guess the Catholic churches of Germany ceased handing over church records to the inquistion to help ferret out jews. Oh, oops, I guess not.
You do realize that don't you? Or do you believe that England and Germany were morally equivalent in WWII because Germany murdered 6 million Jews and Great Britain did not allow professing Jews to sit in the House of Lords Spiritual?
I have no idea what you are on about here. Are you under the impression that the House of Lords murdered 6 million jews during the holocaust. Maybe you got that from reading between the lines in "Mein Kampf", as well.
You've documented nothing.
Self-absorbed balderdash. Just because you refuse to read it doesn't make it go away.
The volkische movement was specifically a counter-Christian movement philosophically based on the atheistic idealism of the German nationalist Fichte. Its proponents combined this atheist idealism with other anti-Christian ideas like "free love", "naturism" (nudism), occultism and nature-worship.
This line of reasoning is total horse manure. Adolf Hitler learned his anti-semitism by growing up, and being educated in a famously jew hating branch of the catholic church, which he adored at the time, and Fichte didn't invent his anti-semitism out of whole cloth, any more than anyone else in 19/20th century europe did.
German anti-Jewish sentiment came from the radical anti-foreigner mentality that has characterized German nationalism since the time of Tacitus...It is unsurprising that the least-Christianized region of Europe would be the first to raise violent hands against Christ's kinsmen.
Oh, brother, what zany apologist tripe--I guess maybe you have a similar story about the jew-burners of Italy, France, and England, as well. We're talking about the startup country of Martin Luther and the Reformation. We're talking about the region of the world that was massively de-populated by the 100 years war. Good grief.
Because christians have an incredibly long and well-documented history of hating and exterminating whole communities of jews. I gave a morbidly long, but hardly complete list of these events back upthread a ways, if you want to track down the specifics.
I don't know how much is "much". Ever? Yes. Weekly? No. Why?
I'd like to know if you have read Genesis for yourself and whether or not you believe the Bible is the inspired, infallible word of God?
I was just wondering why anyone would think Hitler being a hypocrute would be significant. The imporant thing is not what he believed personally, but what he preached. He didn't personally kill millions of Jews. His audience did.
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